Interview with Kazuo Sagawa, a special effects technical director of the Ultra series, 'If you do it only with self-satisfaction, the customers will be separated.'
We asked director Kazuo Sagawa, who was a direct pupil of
Director Sagawa participated as a special skill director in works such as 'Return of Ultraman', 'Ultraman Taro' and 'Ultraman Cosmos' , including special shooting of 'Ultraman' . This time, SKY PerfecTV! The original program 'Nippon Tokusatsu, Crossing the Borders! -The Men Who Challenged the World-', a special feature of the Japanese movie channel that is being broadcast on TV stations and other cable TV stations. '(3/20, 3/21 and other broadcasts) . What kind of feelings does the special skill director, who has supported Japanese special effects for over 30 years, have about the current situation of special effects?
Details are as below. Japanese movie channel 'SFX Kingdom Special-Sixth Challenge to the World-'
Arrived at Akasaka Twin Tower where today's recording will be held
Reception of Japanese movie channel
Director Sagawa had arrived at the recording site. The appearance of this time is that the movie 'Extreme Expedition Ship Polar Bora' shot with American capital will be aired in the first special feature, and the program talks about the shooting situation at that time.
At that time, the 'Pola Bora' that was actually used for shooting. Director Tomoo Haraguchi, who is also one of the performers this time, collected the items discarded at the studio and brought back the items that he had personally restored and stored.
With Director Haraguchi in front of the Paula Bora.
◆ Until you become a special effects technical director
GIGAZINE (G):
First of all, how is a special effects technical director different from an ordinary director?
Director Kazuo Sagawa (hereinafter Sagawa):
An ordinary director shoots a drama, but a special skill director is the job of embodying an image in a video in a drama. For example, it is natural to produce a monster costume, but that is the work from Eiji Tsuburaya, which occurred in the work of the special skill director. An ordinary director shoots things in this world through a lens, but a special skill director has to shoot the image written in the script, something that does not exist in this world. If you can't shoot something without a picture even if you look through the lens, you can't say that you're a special skill director. Just directing a monster is not enough to be a feat director.
G:
I think that a special skill director is a special job, but how did you become a special skill director?
Sagawa:
I think it was 1958 when I was a student. If I entered the art department of Nihon University in Ekoda, Ikebukuro, and became an ordinary director or director, it was a time when the population would increase, and I think it wouldn't be so noticeable. You thought about doing something that wasn't there.
At that time, Godzilla was getting excited, and in the spring of my first year at university, Eiji Tsuburaya, I call him Oyaji, but he wanted to go to Tsuburaya and learn from him. Then I said, 'You, stop this kind of business, I'm the only one', so I asked you not to say that, and if you want to do so much, I decided to work part-time first. Right. The old man says, 'What do your parents think?', 'I'm the second son, so it's okay' (laughs)
But it was hard. When the old man got into work, he was called by various jobs such as a photography assistant, and he felt like going to school when he had no job, so I don't know which one is the real job. That's why I miss the repeated exams, and even if I try again, I can't pass it. In such a situation, I graduated from university six months later. I'm glad I was able to graduate even half a year late (laughs)
G:
I see, that's how it happened.
Sagawa:
At that time, I had a lot of video-related work on TV. Since there are not enough people, if you graduate, you will be called 'Welcome, welcome' except for NHK. Nowadays, it seems that many companies will get a job offer per person. But I refused it and wanted to do the film.
◆ Digital technology and analog technology
G:
It's a little off topic, but I think that the number of movies using special effects is decreasing recently, and the number of movies using CG is increasing instead, but among them, special effects are better than CG. What kind of point is it?
Sagawa:
It's difficult to say that it's made of analog and can't be done digitally. The most difficult thing about digital was water and fire. Now, if there is an image that is also based on water or fire, it can be reproduced. Whether you make a vortex or a tornado, you can do anything. In the case of analog, it becomes a technical issue of how to make it.
So, when it comes to which one is better or more powerful, I think it's a matter of the image in the mind of the creator. I think everyone has an image of a tornado for a tornado and a storm for a storm. The difference is whether the image is poisonous or light.
Sagawa:
For example, there is a picture that the person is good at, and even if you take only what you are good at, you will be complacent. If you don't have self-satisfaction, you can't make a video, but if you do it only with self-satisfaction, the customers will be separated.
I still take pictures with the idea that 'natural things look natural'. For example, the cup in front of this. This is a cup for everyone. In the same way, when you make a new model here, you only have to know whether it is a dinosaur or a monster, even if you keep silent. It shouldn't be understood without telops and explanations.
Therefore, the most important thing for special images is to make it possible for people who see the images to create SEs (sound effects) in their own minds. If you can do that, it's okay.
Sagawa:
This is what the old man always said, 'Stand by the customer and make a picture.' 'If you want to make your own picture, make an independent film. We are just an individual living in a capital society. If you don't think about it, your customers will leave.'
Well, it's not just that, it's also important to have your own particularity. If you lose this feeling altogether, the aftertaste will be bad, even if you look at what you made later. If you still have a little commitment, you can feel a little joy.
◆ Success if you can create a work that will immerse you
G:
Which of the works you've made so far is successful and satisfying?
Sagawa:
As long as I'm doing it, I'm satisfied with it, and I'm not satisfied with it, of course, but it's also in each process in one book. So it's difficult when it comes to which work.
G:
So when do you think 'this was good'?
Sagawa:
That's when the audience feels comfortable and immerses themselves in the drama. I used to go to the cinema and talk to them at the exit. If you feel 'Oh, that's right' at that time, I think it's a great success. It's an otaku's opinion to say, 'Wow, it was great!' (Laughs)
It's not that nerds are bad. However, people who are not nerds are also watching movies.
◆ How to make a movie 'Avatar' and a Hollywood movie
G:
The movie 'Avatar' has been successful, have you seen it?
Sagawa:
I'm thinking of seeing it, but I'm just looking at the middle part, and I haven't seen the whole story yet. The great thing about that movie is the greatness of a person named James Cameron . I think that person is also thinking about what kind of video should be made to make customers happy.
There may be some parts that I make for myself, but the way to make a Hollywood movie is based on the premise that customers will come in and money will come in. It's also dealing with buyers all over the world, so it's not that Japanese people like this, American people like this, but what kind of images people all over the world want on average. I think it's calculated and made.
When you're watching a movie, you might think, 'Oh, I think this will happen next time.' So it really is. At that time, I think that the audience is reading what they want.
I've had the opportunity to see a lot of Hollywood works, so I often think about it, but the way it's done is like this. 'It's coming out, it's coming out, it's coming out ... oh, it's not coming out.' This. There is always this. This is the first way over there.
◆ How to make realistic images
G:
I think that many of the director's works have reality that seems to be true in reality. How do you create reality?
Sagawa:
I wonder. As a person who makes it, I think it's because I make it with that feeling. The easiest way to make a monster movie is to 'take scary things as scary'.
That's because if it's a monster, when it's barking, when it's attacking, it's directed by considering the fear of the monster. On the other hand, when you want to show kindness, you can take a gentle image by treating it with a gentle heart. Images are also emotions. It's easier to express your emotions.
I often say that it is a manzai, but 'crying is training, anger is a whip.' Then, when it comes to 'laughter,' this is a success. If you make something that makes you laugh, you can make a really good image.
◆ About the current Ultra series
G:
You said that you were very deeply involved in the Ultra series, but do you have any feelings when you see the new Ultraman?
Sagawa:
Ultraman has become so famous that it will become Ultraman no matter how you make it. As long as Ultraman comes out, it's Ultraman.
Then what happens if Ultraman doesn't come out? It's no longer a drama. Today's fans are probably 4 to 5 years old in terms of target age. I think I'm not up to 10 years old. This means that you shouldn't make a fool of a 4-5 year old child.
I also have a grandchild who is 5 years old, but 5 years old feels like 5 years old. I'm 5 years old now, maybe because of the influence of TV, I only want the phenomenon. I don't care about the drama. Ultraman will come out and defeat the monster. Actually, that shouldn't be the case, but it can't be helped because we've made it into such a world, isn't it?
There are many TV dramas that capture only the phenomenon. That's the quickest way to make it. So, the viewer will just look at it.
G:
Wasn't that the case with a 5-year-old kid in the past?
Sagawa:
When my kid was watching, my parents were with me, and when the kid didn't understand, I was asked, 'What is this doing?' That made me understand the drama, but now I don't have such parents. In the past, there were quite a few families where both parents were watching Ultraman and other characters, but now there are fewer videos that such families can watch.
A long time ago, when I took a heavy video, I was often told by Mr. Tsuburaya's father, 'You can't show this when your child is eating.' I think that's true now, but at that time I was angry when I said 'I'm not a good old man' and said 'I can't think of that, you!'.
◆ '100 points of video for the first time after processing 100 points of 100 points of material'
G:
It's a little different, but are there any movies you've watched recently that were good?
Sagawa:
Please forgive me for this (laughs) I don't hate TV, but if you want to watch the video, you want to watch it on a big screen. So, I'm just going to the cinema now with my grandchildren.
The recent video is already doing amazing things, it's a series of surprises that you can do this. It's not that I don't know digital technology at all, I know it. However, when I see an uncrafted video, I wonder if it's a video that would never happen. You think of a real image.
In my case, I think that 100 points can be taken by taking 100 points at the time of the uncrafted video and seasoning 100 points from there. It's not 200 points in total. But in the current video, not all of them are so, but I think that 50 points are not crafted, 50 points are crafted, and 100 points are 50 + 50, but that is not the case.
G:
Even if you do 50 points on 50 points of video, you will not get 100 points.
Sagawa:
I've been doing analog video for many years, and sometimes I make mistakes, but if I make a mistake, the video will not touch chopsticks or sticks. That's a video with 50 points for elementary and 50 points for crafting.
This always happens no matter how skilled you are, and when you're shooting by yourself, you have a hard time trying to shoot 100 points, but the person who is shooting the play is different from the person who is shooting the special effects. When I come, I ask in advance to say, 'Please stop doing this,' but there are times when I could only shoot that at the scene.
◆ 'Take anything seriously'
G:
So the last question is, what do you always keep in mind when you work?
Sagawa:
The story is completely different now than when I was young, but when I was young, my father said, 'Take anything seriously.' 'When this is gone, get out of this world. Take any small thing seriously.' It's quite difficult, though.
I'm going to do 100% myself, but it's difficult. I'm trapped in time, money, and many other things.
G:
Thank you very much.
Next time, I will make that transformation scene of Ultraman and post an interview with director Koichi Kawakita who was in charge of special effects technical director for many works such as 'Godzilla vs. Biollante' .
◆ Japanese movie channel ・ 'SFX Kingdom Special-6th Challenge to the World-'
Broadcast a special effects movie in which Japan has teamed up with overseas!
·On-air date
March 19th (Sat) -21st (holiday / Monday) Asa 7: 00- and others
・ Broadcast work
'Extreme bottom expedition ship Polar Bora' / 'Descappa' / 'Counterattack of Beijing originals'
'Chinese Superman Inframan' / 'Crisis 2050' / 'Mrs. White's Youth Love'
'Nippon special effects, crossing borders! -Men who challenged the world-1'
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