Interview with Toshio Miike, a special effects / VFX director of the movie 'Fukushima 50', how did you tackle difficult subjects?
On March 11, 2011, the tsunami at the time of the Great East Japan Earthquake with a magnitude of 9.0 and a maximum seismic intensity of 7 caused the TEPCO Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station to lose all power. At this time, a movie depicting people struggling in an unprecedented situation at the nuclear power plant was released. Fukushima 50 'is. In this work, the vast open set and CG based on miniature special effects were used together to reproduce the nuclear power plant, so while having Toshio Miike, the special effects / VFX director, show the actual storyboards, etc. I heard about the movie and the story of the special effects 'now'.
Movie 'Fukushima 50' Official Website | A blockbuster screening!
◆ About the movie 'Fukushima 50'
GIGAZINE (G):
How did Mr. Miike decide to participate in this work?
Toshio Miike (hereinafter referred to as Miike):
Mr. Shinichiro Inoue, Vice President of KADOKAWA, spoke directly. When I didn't know the title and content of the movie, I received a phone call saying 'I have a movie that uses special effects, can you do it?', But after that, the original movie was sent to me. I've been focusing on entertainment movies so far, so I felt that 'this time the responsibility is serious.' After that, I looked at various materials, books, and NHK documentaries, and studied hard.
G:
In this work, not only the people who struggled at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, but also the nuclear power plant itself is one of the protagonists. I've seen it many times in the news, but this time, the reactor building of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant will appear as if it was taken locally. You said that you used both the open set and CG. Which area was made with CG?
Miike:
The walls of the building have been blown away by the hydrogen explosion, so the appearance of the nuclear power plant before the accident does not remain anywhere. Besides, because we are in the process of decommissioning, it is impossible to shoot in the field in any scene. Therefore, I decided to make the building with CG. The area around the ground, such as the service building where the staff are moving around, is reproduced with a vast open set made for shooting.
G:
So that's it.
Miike:
The art designer is
G:
For example, there is a scene where the Self-Defense Forces people are moving around the building when water is injected, but what if the background building is synthetic?
Miike:
That's right. The lower part of the building is taken in the range made with the open set, but other than that, the cuts that go up to the upper part of the building are synthesized with VFX. Today's movies are rarely shot with a fixed camera, and the camera is always moving. Compositing a moving picture was technically difficult a long time ago, but now it can be done without any discomfort.
G:
So that's it. As a spectator, it seems difficult to tell whether it is a set or a composite.
Miike:
Our role is to have customers see it as if they were at the site at that time, so I thought that we had to make it a level that didn't make us feel synthetic.
G:
This time, I heard that you first made a miniature and then made CG based on it. Ultimately, I think it is possible to improve the details after becoming CG, but how much do you make at the time of miniature?
Miike:
I think it depends on the work. If it's for consideration, it's not necessary to make it so detailed, but for this miniature, I made the details with the intention of actually shooting the miniature and using it. It is possible to make a video with CG without making a miniature from the beginning, but I do not know the final quality until the CG is completed. If you make a three-dimensional object once, it is called 'quality assurance', or you can have a common understanding that 'aim for something of this quality'.
G:
Oh, I see.
Miike:
For the CG department, if there is a three-dimensional object that serves as a basis, the CG base can be established simply by scanning. We asked them to agree that it would be helpful if there were even a few clues in the face of tight time and budget. It's not something like 'miniature vs. CG', it's a way of aiming for each other's good points. It was 1 / 50th the size, but the details were quite fine. Both when it is safe and when it is broken by a hydrogen explosion.
This is a miniature photo of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant Unit 2 building.
G:
I didn't make only the ones that were safe and processed them with CG after the explosion.
Miike:
The explosion itself is CG, but I made two types of miniature buildings before and after the explosion. If there is a miniature first, there is a sense of security that at least that much video will be produced. You can make really realistic CG if all the conditions are met, but as I said earlier, it's hard to see the final finish. Miniatures are guaranteed when they are completed. It is a guarantee of security for both the director and the person in charge of CG.
G:
When the miniature is completed, you can see that you can rest assured that this quality will be scanned because it will be scanned.
Miike:
That's it. Therefore, the surface of the building looks flat from a distance, but when approaching, the texture of the paint on the surface, grooves, and outer stairs are also created.
G:
In
Miike:
This time too, it is made in all directions. In cinematography, it's normal to make what you make as needed and not what you don't see. This time it was for scanning purposes, so it wasn't difficult to make the entire surface.
Building miniature after the explosion
Even the exposed reinforcing bars are reproduced in detail.
G:
How many people do the miniature production itself do?
Miike:
The special effects designer is Masato Inatsuki , and the miniature production is handled by Marbling Fine Arts , who has been indebted for many years in special effects movies such as Godzilla and Gamera. As a miniature staff, we are doing it with about 4 people. I think there are about 6 people in the scan shooting group and the steel group in the CG department. It was a fairly small group of people.
G:
By 'going to make a CG based on the miniature' was originally as a molding nurse white set that was joined Takashi Yamazaki supervision also are using a similar technique I saw a story that. Is this method quite orthodox?
Miike:
After all, Japanese movies don't have as much budget and time as Hollywood movies, so it's faster to check them in kind. I think that even in the United States, we are making templates for consideration, so I think that it is not the only method in Japan. However, in the case of Japanese movies, it seems that there is a better chance of using analog when making CG. Of course, there will be many CG works that are done without going through such a process, and I think that the results will change depending on various situations. It's not necessarily bad because you don't make a miniature, and there may be cases where making a miniature doesn't work (laughs).
G:
Certainly, that's right (laughs)
Miike:
However, since we are starting from analog, we always do it with the policy that it will be beneficial as a whole to incorporate the good parts of the miniature. Then, called material shooting, smoke and snow are shot by the special effects team for compositing.
G:
You talked about the budget, but now it seems that the budget will be higher if you do everything in miniature.
Miike:
That's right. When CG started to appear in the video industry, it was a story like 'one cut millions of yen' and it was expensive. The technology has advanced steadily, and now it is more expensive to call a staff specializing in special effects to shoot miniatures, and the reality is that CG can be cheaper. Also, since CG has more flexibility in angle, it also has the advantage of being able to respond flexibly at the editing stage. However, in terms of not being able to see the guarantee of quality until the CG is completed, for people like us who are familiar with miniatures, it is more reliable to add the goodness of miniatures as much as possible.
G:
In terms of how to improve the quality, there is also a part that leads to quality assurance for the entire production team.
Miike:
The CG part should be able to be made from scratch without a miniature, but it would be helpful if there was one. We recognize the goodness of each other and try to get the best of them.
G:
In this work, the important scene alongside the various nuclear power plants is the tsunami scene at the beginning. It took about a year to make it, but which process takes the longest time?
Miike:
First of all, this project was started by
Storyboard and script created by Mr. Miike. This is the final draft.
G:
Yes.
Miike:
Our role is to make the picture on the script, which is only letters, into a concrete visual, so we first make the storyboard. Therefore, I will discuss what kind of cut is necessary while consulting with Director Wakamatsu, but of course, budget and time are involved, so I can not do everything I want to do. From that, I decided how much to visualize.
G:
I see, I narrow down at that point.
Miike:
The tsunami scene was at the beginning, and I thought it was 'essential' from an early stage. The main part of VFX is Shirogumi, and it's a historic company to which director Takashi Yamazaki, who was mentioned earlier, also belongs. This time, the team who did '
G:
Oh……
Miike:
In water simulation, for example, the sea and rivers can be drawn realistically with CG without any discomfort, but the tsunami swept away various things, and the swept things collided with each other and the spray flew, which is a complicated expression. It took. The quality shouldn't be inferior to what appears in spectacle footage in Hollywood movies, but since we're watching real tsunami footage in newsreels, we can't lie too much. I am very particular about that, and even if it is a drawing picture, it may not be visible to the customer if it is too detailed, but I am getting the car to be washed away. It feels like it took a year to do that physical simulation.
G:
The tsunami newsreel was really shocking at the time. Is there a big difference between what was drawn in the storyboard and what was finally made into a video?
Miike:
I agree. I trusted the Shirogumi team, but I didn't know how much I could take in the end until I could. The goal is to have a quality that is comparable to Hollywood movies, but the skill of the workers and how far they can go in the given time. After shooting the main story, will you start editing?
G:
Yes.
Miike:
Even at the editing stage, there is almost no progress from the rough picture of Previs, so everyone comes up with an atmosphere like 'What's going on with CG? Is it okay?' I'm the person in charge on the VFX side, so I explained something like 'I'll get better, please give me a little more time, it's okay, please wait.'
G:
Hoho.
Miike:
Then there was a picture that was made quite early for only one cut. When I showed that one cut to Director Wakamatsu, he said, 'This is amazing.' I was told, 'Let's extend the scale (seconds) a little' (laughs)
G:
Oh.
Miike:
CG cuts create data within a fixed number of seconds, so it's not that easy to stretch. If it's a video shot on site, it's easy to stretch it because there are before and after cutting it by editing. However, because one cut was so good, I was able to convince Director Wakamatsu that 'the more time I have, the better the picture will be.'
G:
Which part was the one cut that Director Wakamatsu was convinced of?
Miike:
This is the side view of the first tsunami hitting the building.
G:
It also appears in the trailer. Certainly, it was a powerful image that you can see that the director says 'Let's stretch it a little more'. Naturally, the footage of the tsunami scene is not a copy of the newsreel, but a completely new one.
Movie 'Fukushima 50' (Fukushima Fifty) Trailer-YouTube
Miike:
Yes. It's all a CG simulation.
G:
Earlier, you mentioned that you are simulating the collision of cars washed away in the tsunami, but did you decide at the time of the storyboard that the cars were so involved?
Miike:
I agree. Details that cannot be understood from the picture alone were explained verbally in a meeting with the CG department. Another important point is that it is a 'black wave'. It's a very thick wave that involves mud, so I said that I wanted to draw it properly because it was a heavy black wave rather than a fluffy feeling.
G:
Director Wakamatsu was convinced by that one cut, but how did Miike feel when he saw the completed cut?
Miike:
The quality of CG images is gradually improved, so even if you check it every other week, it will not change dramatically. So, when I saw the first tsunami cut, I was relieved that it would be okay if all the cuts went this far. However, I couldn't tell if the quality of the other paintings would improve to that extent, so I was worried, but I felt like, 'Please do your best until the last minute.'
G:
In the end, did you meet your expectations?
Miike:
I think that Shirogumi and Picture Element have done their best to finish it. I also use a lot of inconspicuous VFX cuts that customers don't notice other than the tsunami and hydrogen explosion, but they are all good. And there is no doubt that the power of the art and decoration departments is improving the quality of this movie. The first photo was taken in the fall of 2018 at the open set of the reactor building in Suwa, where I cranked in from the place where the debris was scattered after the tsunami rushed in, but when I first went to the site, it was a breathtaking presence. There was a feeling. I have worked with Mr. Seshita of art and Mr. Nobuhiro Akitaya of decoration so far, but this time the work was even more intense.
G:
So that's it.
Miike:
After that, I entered Kadokawa Daiei Studio and took pictures of the parts assembled as a set, such as the central control room, the seismic isolated building, the director's room, etc. immediately after the beginning of 2019, but the reproducibility was amazing anyway. .. There was a realistic stage that made me think of it as a documentary. On the other hand, for our VFX part, we have to make something that is not on the spot with CG, but with a quality that is comparable to art, we follow it as if the customer was there. I did it with the goal of being able to experience it.
G:
Yes.
Miike:
However, regarding the tsunami, it is a little over the height that the waves actually rushed in, partly because it is an introduction part. Although it is based on a true story, it is a part that has been expanded as a movie. It's just a reproduction, and various omissions and deformations are needed to show the story over 4 days in 2 hours.
G:
So that's it.
Miike:
The movie has already been released on March 6th (Friday), and you can hear various impressions and opinions. Because these works have a strong message, it is natural that people with high interests may not be convinced by their respective positions and their own insights, such as 'It is different from the actual situation' or 'I can't draw here'. I think. However, what is important is that there was such a big accident in Fukushima that threatened Japan, and the people who were born and raised there faced it at the risk of their lives. The result was a building explosion that also released radioactive material to the outside world, which isn't very successful, but it's true that they stopped the worst of the containment explosion.
G:
The struggle of the 50 people who remained at the nuclear power plant, which is also in the title.
Miike:
I agree. The behavior of those at the nuclear power plant is by no means a cool heroism. However, I know that 'if we run away, no one can deal with it,' and it is true that the remaining people who had no choice but to do something about their lives. That is the main theme of this movie, isn't it? Also, people tend to avoid such subjects, but if they can be left in the form of a movie, that would be meaningful. Absolutely not a neat movie. It's impossible, it hasn't been solved yet, some people may feel uncomfortable there, and I think there are many people who are not happy about connecting the image of the nuclear power plant with Fukushima itself. However, in the long run, I thought that making a movie would be something someone should do, so I was involved as one of the staff.
G:
It's not a documentary, but it's not an 'entertainment', so I can't say 'I want you to take a look', but I can't keep my eyes on this subject. The tsunami scene, which was created over a year, is difficult for some people to see because it is drawn with power.
Miike:
I have consulted with Director Wakamatsu about how much to draw during the preparation period. The director told me that it actually happened and that the tsunami would be one of the triggers for a big accident, so it's better to draw it properly. I avoided images of people being swallowed by the tsunami, but I dared to put in the places where water would fall on people trying to climb the stairs. Some people actually lost their lives in the building. We knew through the news that there were people there, but we didn't even know how they actually worked. It's terrible that you were trying to do something in a really pitch-black state.
G:
First of all, because the instrument was down, there was no way to know the numbers even at the scene, the message game of the numbers was not working well, and looking back, I wondered if the news at that time was done like this. The struggle on the ground is an impression that has not been easily conveyed to the press.
Miike:
Many people who were born and raised in Fukushima worked as staff, but they were there after the power was lost, groping, rushing into a pitch-black building where the aftershocks did not stop, and the explosion of Unit 1. The horrors faced by people are unimaginable. And I think it was a difficult decision to have to sprinkle radioactive substances in our own homes with our own hands, because of the desire to cut the bowels for venting work.
G:
After the movie was released, Naoto Kan, who was the prime minister at the time
Miike:
There is a feeling that various viewpoints will be talked about and I hope that the accident will not be weathered, but on the other hand, the wound is salted in that it is a work that reminds me of the image of 'Fukushima equal nuclear power plant'. I think some locals will feel like they are.
G:
Even if beautiful cherry blossoms come out, it is not a happy ending where everything fits in a circle, so it may be more painful.
Miike:
It seems that some people receive the scene of the last row of cherry blossom trees as if it were settled down, but the cherry blossoms bloom every spring, but the people who lived there cannot see it. Tomioka Town, which appears in the film, still has a difficult-to-return area, so the reality is that the effects of the accident are still continuing.
According to the Fukushima Prefecture official website, the specific areas where it is difficult to return are as follows as of March 10, 2020 (Tuesday).
Status of evacuation order area --Fukushima Reconstruction Station --Fukushima Prefecture Homepage
https://www.pref.fukushima.lg.jp/site/portal/list271-840.html
G:
It's a beautiful picture that spring has come to Fukushima ...
Miike:
But there is no traffic. In the past, Yonomori Park was a famous place for cherry blossoms, and people gathered every year. In the movie, the appearance along the road that appears before going to the row of cherry blossom trees is the scenery of Tomioka Town actually taken in 2019.
G:
Is that local, not CG?
Miike:
Yes, it's exactly what it looks like now. Everyone who lived there was evacuated immediately after the earthquake and couldn't return for a long time, so it's just as it is. The building is still broken, and the grass is growing and it can't even be demolished. That is the reality of Fukushima today.
G:
I wonder if it's CG, just like the aerial view of the nuclear power plant before the earthquake.
Miike:
The filming of this movie was really blessed with respect to the weather. There was no problem with the weather in Suwa's open set, which I shot for about a week in a row, and I got permission to shoot in advance at the Self-Defense Forces Kisarazu station, so it's not easy to say 'Tomorrow because the weather is bad'. is. All such important days have cleared up. The place where the U.S. military helicopter at Yokota Air Base flies was fine, and I can read the cherry blossoms to some extent when they bloom, but since it is a difficult area to return to, I can apply for permission by issuing a list of staff and shoot on the day I aimed. I did. The cherry blossoms are shaking because the wind is blowing, right? It is difficult to express even natural shaking in composition. I was really lucky.
G:
When you were on location at Yokota Air Base, you were actually shooting a helicopter flying from the base.
Miike:
That's right. I handed over the script and applied for permission to the United States. I think that the fact that the US military cooperated is, after all, a special treatment because it is such a work. Of course, while there were places where 'that's why we cooperate', there were also cases where 'this makes cooperation difficult'. I have no touch on casting, but I think that some actors were worried about appearing or shunned because of their strong message. I think Mr. Koichi Sato and Mr. Ken Watanabe often appeared, and I think that Mr. KADOKAWA often made it with such a difficult subject.
G:
It's been 9 years since the 2011 Great East Japan Earthquake, and it's been 9 years, but it's still 9 years.
Miike:
When I was on location scouting, I was shown various things around Tomioka Town, but it's still the same after the earthquake at the government office and elementary school. At school, school bags are left as they are. Time has stopped as it was that day. Although it is depicted in the movie, there are many people who couldn't go back because they were told to evacuate for the time being. At that timing, you changed your life.
G:
surely…….
Miike:
We made it based on Ryusho Kadota 's original work, but I think it was the weight of the reality that we interviewed the parties concerned, and the fear of the staff when electricity was lost at the nuclear power plant was amazing. .. The nuclear power plant right next to us is out of control, the meltdown has begun and the pressure is rising, but we have to stay. I tried to do something with sleeplessness for 4 days, but during that time, there was a hydrogen explosion at Unit 1. That shock, the sound of the explosion ... Even after seeing that desperate situation, you're still on the scene. And Unit 3 also exploded. Still, I can't run away, I can't run away. I think that is a tremendous sense of duty and a sense of mission. When I saw that newsreel, I think everyone was shocked, saying, 'This may not be possible anymore.' Still, there are people who stayed near the reactor thinking that they had to do something about it, which is amazing in itself.
G:
Of course, I can see that there are people on the helicopter when water is poured from the SDF helicopter, but I thought that there were so many people in the building underneath. It's natural to say that, but it's a surprise.
Miike:
That's right. Also, there is a tubular cooling system called Sapchan (suppression chamber), and the reactor is surrounded by concrete, but Sapchan is right next to the reactor vessel in the concrete. Therefore, the amount of radioactive material is not odd, and I think it was hard for people who rushed toward it to feel uncomfortable. I don't even know when it will explode.
G:
In the movie, the inside of the building is vaguely visible to make it easier to convey, but in reality it was pitch black ...
Miike:
Really, in a passage where you wouldn't know anything without a flashlight, and next to the reactor where the radioactivity is being emitted, open the valve.
G:
We are looking at it, knowing that it had already melted down at this point ...
Miike:
It's a movie with many problems. Therefore, I think that various opinions will come out. The pros and cons of the movie are left to the discretion of the audience, but I hope that people all over Japan will think about the reconstruction of Fukushima and Tohoku as much as possible and increase the number of visitors. Fukushima Prefecture is also the hometown of director
◆ About the present of 'special effects'
G:
Following the flow of the 'Tokusatsu Museum' mentioned earlier, in 2013, director Hideaki Anno sent a message 'Please help the technique of special effects', and since the ' Survey Report on Japanese Special Effects ' was announced7 The year has passed. What does the current situation look like as a person on the front lines?
Miike:
The 'SFX Museum' is a special exhibition that started in 2012 at the Museum of Contemporary Art Tokyo. This was a message that the special effects of the analog method of shooting miniatures and sculptures that we have been accustomed to since childhood are in danger of disappearing. Thanks to this exhibition, special effects using miniatures have been re-evaluated, and many special effects movie screenings and events have increased. However, in reality, CG is now the center of video production, and miniature special effects are the minority. The flow cannot be changed anymore. However, that is the difference in the means of 'drawing using miniatures or drawing using CG', and CG is also a special effect in the sense of creating images that are not there.
G:
Oh, I see.
Miike:
CG technology is advancing year by year, and the possibility of making even better works is increasing, so I think that the role of special effects and VFX will continue to be necessary. However, it is difficult in the sense of 'special effects using miniatures'. On the production side, doing special effects in miniature is not suitable for the budget, and the possibilities of genres that CG can visualize are expanding. We are a generation of special effects monsters, so we will do our best to keep the miniature special effects for as long as possible.
G:
That's right.
Miike:
There are almost no movies or dramas that are made now without a CG group. It's a change of seasons, and it's 'erased', but it's useful for various things such as erasing things that can't be seen at the scene, so basically CG is used for every work. In that sense, it's a good time. It is now commonplace in ordinary dramas to shoot an actor on a green or blue background called 'synthetic back' and use a different background. However, when we were young, everyone didn't understand the shooting itself, and there were some actors who were in a bad mood like 'Why am I acting in such a place?' Now, everyone is convinced by 'I will put it in later with CG', and I can shoot the composite back without any resistance.
G:
There is a feeling of alienation.
Miike:
In that sense, it can be said that the role of special effects = VFX has gained a great deal of social rights. CG has expanded the possibilities, and technically it is making more and more progress. However, to be honest, it is strict to say 'miniature special effects on an old scale'.
G:
There are various problems such as money problems and schedule problems, but is there any advantage in miniature special effects?
Miike:
There is a good point that you can guarantee the quality that can not be read with CG by shooting with a miniature, but unlike CG, it is impossible to ask 'Can you correct the angle from here a little more?' On the other hand, the weak point of CG is that a certain finishing period is required to obtain the final texture. If you don't have the time or money and you say 'do it on this schedule', it will be a very disastrous rise.
G:
'Until it's done ...'
Miike:
That's it. In that case, it can be said that the quality will be improved if you take a picture with a certain amount of miniature, but considering the budget scale, it is easier to make a budget if you do it with CG.
G:
It is difficult without the premise that 'this time we will use miniature special effects' as a concept.
Miike:
Even in Hollywood, there are works that occasionally make images with model animations that are shot frame by frame. For example, Tim Burton's ' Nightmare Before Christmas ' (1993) and ' Tim Burton's Corpse Bride ' (2005), or Leica's ' KUBO / The Two Strings Secret ' (2016). However, that is premised on the shooting method. You need a doll to make a picture with model animation, and the background is a miniature set. Therefore, if a work aiming for such a taste is made in Japan, there may be a turn. Such works are not 100% on-site paintings, but they are considerably CG digitally processed. While giving a handmade analog feeling, I also take advantage of digital.
G:
The reason why such works cannot be made in Japan is ...
Miike:
It takes time and money because I have to make everything from scratch (bitter smile). The Japanese movie market is definitely Japanese-speaking, and probably mainly in Japan. Occasionally, some works will sell overseas, but basically you have to collect them in Japan. If that happens, the budget will become smaller and we will not be able to hit the global market.
G:
So that's it.
Miike:
Also, ' Wallace and Gromit ' in England is a clay animation, replacing dolls with different shapes and making it with tremendous effort. If such a work is planned, there will be a miniature. At NHK, a young artist makes a time-lapse work of about 5 minutes with ' Petit Petit Anime '. However, when it comes to a movie that is over an hour long ... it's difficult to be prepared for that scale and invest money.
G:
As a technology, it has been taken over.
Miike:
There are still people who like it and want to do it, but I think the limit of the Japanese market is that there are few places to play an active role.
G:
I 've heard from puppet animation artist Fumiko Magari that she hasn't had the opportunity to create 3D animations since ' Nutcracker Fantasy ' released in 1979. It was 2013, but has the surrounding situation remained severe for seven years since then?
Interview with puppet animation writer Fumiko Magari about the founder of Japanese 3D animation, Tadahito Mochinaga, and production techniques --GIGAZINE
Miike:
I agree.
G:
If so, I would like to see a work like 'This is the culmination of miniature special effects' at some point.
Miike:
That's really true! By all means, Mr. KADOKAWA, please.
G:
Thank you for all the talk today.
The movie 'Fukushima 50' has been released in theaters since March 6, 2020 (Friday).
Movie 'Fukushima 50' special video ② --YouTube
・ Addition
The 'SFX Archive Center' mentioned in Mr. Miike's story opened on November 3, 2020 (Tuesday).
Shin Ultraman statue unveiled at the opening ceremony of 'Sukagawa Archive Center', which was born in the hometown of 'God of special effects' --GIGAZINE
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