How do you see the game industry Masuda Shogi who gave birth to "cross over my dead"?

After 12 years since the original version was released in 1999, finally remake version was released on November 10"Cross over my dead". This time the game designerMasuda MasudaI asked Mr. Tsuyoshi that I could not listen to what I usually do not know, such as the background of the original version of "Ikka" or what I think about the future game industry.

Beyond my dead body | PlayStation Official Site
http://pscom.jp/oreshika


Arrived at the SCE head office.


Go through the lobby where Toro is sitting, and go to Masuda.


◆ "Beyond my dead" Background of birth


GIGAZINE (hereinafter, G):
"Beyond my dead" was remade by PSP beyond 12 years. From the time it was launched 12 years ago, I think that "I Cornea" was a title with a quite innovative game system. At the planning stage, did not the opposition such as "Is this OK with this game OK?" Did not happen internally?

Masuda Shiji (hereinafter Masuda):
In those days, it seemed that the Japanese economy was good and the plan was easy to go through. I think that I do not go through now (laugh)

G:
It is said that it is not limited to the game industry now, "It does not go through anything other than a project that hits certainly", but at that time it was easy to pass through even such innovative projects.

Masuda:
For one thing, as a precedent for such games "Derby StallionBecause it was because there was. Derby Stallion will advance as the horse births children, repeating generations. Let's make that protagonist human and do RPG. In such a paraphrase, it may have been easy to image.

G:
Actually, did Masuda talk about that as well as planning?

Masuda:
To tell the truth, it's not a "Derby Stallion" but a slightly different game, "Crown is to you"The series has become a model. It is a PC game released in 1990 from a company called Artding.

Players will become the manager of high school baseball and aim for Koshien, the players will change in 3 years. Even if players change, the characteristics of the team will remain as a tradition. As "a school of ours is a baseball with mobility power" as a feeling of being famous to some extent, a promising freshman gradually comes in with mobility. Since most high schools in Japan are registered, starting with a school that does not have a local name of yourself, fighting in the district qualifying, I finally went out to the Koshien in 10 years and even 10 years from there until I won the Koshien It was a game to play.

G:
Indeed, it is such a game reminiscent of me.

Masuda:
I thought that I could do it with RPG. The baseball game part is replaced by RPG battle.

◆ Graduation thesis original game of cards

G:
Mr. Shigeji Masuda I would like to ask about yourself. Mr. Masuda was from Musashino Art University and he was enrolled in the same basic design department as Mr. Ryu Murakami who is a writer, but what kind of things are you studying?

Masuda:
The most characteristic feature of the department of basic design is that other departments can obtain a teacher's license as long as they teach teaching, but this department alone does not have that. Because, because there are few practical skills.

G:
Does that mean you do not draw pictures?

Masuda:
There is nothing I do not draw, but I draw as an experiment or as a confirmation of technology, it draws in the meaning "there is such a way". In order to design products or products, we will talk with engineers and talk with people who conduct market research and proceed with designing. However, now the design is specialized, and the talk has not advanced with only the technicians. So, I would like to receive information from marketing people "There is such data" and how to reflect it in the design. Or from the people of technology development "How to restrict" such as how to put the point in the design, such a story becomes difficult as it becomes a bigger manufacturer. So, the Department of Basic Design is to learn from psychology, statistics, logic, logic on semiotics, stylistic theory, and fields that are close to such designs. In other words, I will develop interpreters between designers and other fields.

G:
Indeed, it seems to be useful for producers.

Masuda:
It is a department where there are many people who enter such a big company and become such a position as a university professor. So, Mr. Murakami Dragon is also from Bunka University, but he does not paint a lot of pictures. Writer'sMakiko InoukanHe seems to be seniors. There are many people who are famous for places that are not design areas, do you? If it is excellent it will be useful in other fields as well.

G:
Is there anything useful still in the experience of the Miyako period?

Masuda:
At that time there was a computer over there. It is 30 years ago. There is no Windows,PC-8800It is an earlier generation. Far from being a CG, it is a level like "Wow, the line was closed!" (Laugh). But in the future such things could be used, some people are beginning to do things like how to make designs useful on computers.

G:
Indeed, is it a foundation to make computer games?

Masuda:
After that, semiotics and logic are useful.

G:
What is symbolic theory like?

Masuda:
To clarify, in order to explain a certain concept, it usually takes about an hour to explain in words, and still seems to replace the things that can not be communicated well with other images, extract meanings, etc. Is not it? It is a method commonly used in CM, it is explanation received at the laboratory when advertising a new detergent and even if hearing explanation for half a day it is Chimpunkampun for the general public. There, a small character with a face drawn in a circle comes out, and draws an image that peels off dirt stuck to the fiber. It is the way of symbolic theory to replace it with that kind of wind. Or, draw something red on a white background, try squatting, change the color slightly, and see how much it looks like a Hinomaru. What kind of signs are most likely to be recognized when placing signs on highway under various conditions? In that kind of way of thinking, each student selects a theme that he likes and studies.

G:
Did you have a graduation thesis or a graduation production etc?

Masuda:
Apart from architecture, it is the only department that submitted in the form of a graduation thesis was OK. I submitted a new game of cards. By the time I graduate, I was not interested in what I could see and I thought about designing the system, but at that time the computer's functionality was not enough and even if I said that the design of the system I did not understand easily. So let's use cards in places where they are easy to understand and can research without money. By analyzing the attributes of the cards, we extract attributes that have not been used yet, and combine it well to create rules that have new interests not found in traditional card games.

G:
By the way, what kind of game was it?

Masuda:
I made some, but the one I liked the most is the game in which the value of the card changes one by one. Depending on how you discard the card, the scores of the points will change with marks, such as two times the diamond and three times the heart. People who finally have the highest score in hand win. At the graduation thesis review meeting "I wonder if this is a design?" (Laugh).

◆ To make games that will sell beyond 10 years


G:
I was proud of the popularity considerably popular in download sales before remake, but where is the difference between the game that is kept popular for over 10 years and the game that skips a momentary hit?

Masuda:
First of all, it is what you are aiming at. To tell me what I was thinking 12 years ago, the game market at the time was "Children's market" roughly speaking roughly. Even if I say a child, there are primary school students to high school students, but they are under 10 years. However, no matter how I think about it, the number of children will be decreasing from now on and I thought that even if people who are just addicted to this game become adults, I can not stop the game itself. Because those in their 30s were reading juvenile jumps at that time. Even people around 30 years old on Monday had bought a juvenile jump to read "Dragon Ball", it was from 12 years ago. If you look at it, even if elementary and junior high school students playing in the game now become adults in ten years and commute to the company, they will not quit the game. So I thought that the market for games in the future will hold true even for adults.

Twenty years ago ISakuma AkiraAndPrince HiroiWith the guys, "Momotaro Densetsu"Or"Tengai"I was working on a major title such as. However, I also thought that it was a painful thing to go over there. I also have a lot of money to move and a lot of restrictions. Even just helping major titles did not bother me for life, but since I entered this industry, there was a feeling that I wanted to make something I wanted to make. Then, let's become a pioneer of a market that has not been handled so much.

G:
So it's for adults, or a market for games that adults can enjoy.

Masuda:
To put it more, there are also parts that cut the children. At least, I think that this game is not interesting unless it is a junior high school student or a high school student.

G:
That means that that aim was from that time.

Masuda:
So at that time PC engine's "Linda CubeThere is no horny scene, but it is recommended over 18 years old. Also at that time I thought that I would not make visuals cutting edge. The reason is that, at that point, the state-of-the-art picture becomes obsolete as time passes. So, at that time, I already use the pattern of "feeling a little old?"

G:
Certainly, this time GIGAZINE also posted articles of me a couple of times, but on Twitter there was a reaction "It is pretty pretty even if I look at a woman character who is a dead girl now".

Masuda:
Selection criteria for illustrators searched for contact persons who are not obliged to see comics and animation lovers, even if ordinary people see it, accepted. The cutting edge at the time was more eye-catching, and since Eva comes soon, more hands and feet are thinner, jaws are sharp, that's what it was. But it also happens that many people who do money in less than ten years have come out and they become obsolete. So, in such places as possible to avoid strangers.

G:
In that sense, were you thinking of me as a title to sell for a long time from the beginning?

Masuda:
That was the opposite, I thought that it would not sell with "tokan." Then, as an option, you only have to orient towards selling for a long time. Because there was no market for adults at that time. Besides, it is difficult to deliver information to adults. I am graduating from a game magazine. After all it depends on the word-of-mouth or the like, so we only have to aim for so-called "jiwa sales". In order to target those people, adults do not have to play for 5 or 6 hours, so I try to be separated in half an hour and I am aware of it.

G:
The other day, at a lecture by overseas game developers at CEDEC 2011 "Japanese games are too long, you should consider the user's living time moreThere was a remark that the purpose was to say. In my corner, it means that consideration for those parts has been from 12 years ago.

Masuda:
Because I hear from me, "How long will you have your time?" For busy you, you can enjoy the digest version in 20 hours, in reverse it can play for 100 hours in full mode, and so on, the players' time is tremendously conscious.

G:
I do not think there are any other such games.

Masuda:
At that time, various things were told. "As a creator, why do you avoid the one-shot game of the balance that you think is most appropriate? Do you have any pride?" But as for me, I did not know it. There are various customers, and I want many people to play, I do not need such pride.

G:
In every sense, we are making games that can respond to changes in customer base.

Masuda:
Music is also so.Ryoko KiharaThinks the music of "theme song" "flower" in particular, it does not become old at all even after ten years. Lyrics are only saying what is common. The progress of the code is also quite elaborate, but basically it's pretty simple.

G:
Were "flowers" also issuing orders like that?

Masuda:
No, that was listened to at the concert of Mr. Kihara at the premiere, and asked me to use it "it is perfect for the proposal I am writing right now"! Mr. Kihara and my house have different places in 2 years difference, for example, Mr. Kihara got married two years earlier, and children also differed from 2 to 4 years old. Because Kuwahara's songs are rooted in daily life, I did not know even when I listened to it at the beginning when the songs were made, but when I listen to my child when I got a child, "Oh ... that is right, right?" I feel it (lol)

However, this is not only a story with Mr. Kihara 's place but I think that they are the same if they get married and have a child. Because it is universal. Universality is also the picture, the music and the voice actor so. I am very conscious of that.

G:
Conversely, does it mean that there is a need to consciously create such a title that can be sold for a long time?

Masuda:
I agree. I think so. It is not influenced at all by the trend.

G:
My dead was released in 1999, and in RPG that was released at the same time, in 2000Final Fantasy IXthere is. I was a different title from the mainstream of RPG at the time in various ways, but was there any consciousness to dare to deviate from mainstream?

Masuda:
Even if we fight with mainstream RPG, we can not win. I can not win because it is possible to win if I have the same environment as the same budget, but in reality there is no such environment. If you do not compete in a picture, you must win in the system, or your own part, you can not win, not even exist. However, if you put a spot on this small market, you can do with this budget.

◆ Feelings included in remake version and challenge with sequel


G:
There was also a story called "selling jiwa", but how was the sales in the first week actually?

Masuda:
I think that there were not 20,000 pieces.

G:
It continued to sell for 12 years, now it is 400,000.

Masuda:
Including the downloaded version, I think that we are going to do so now at the beginning of this year. About 100,000 download version is among them. There were about 10,000 downloads in about 3 months.

G:
Do you have anything that you thought of as "I will change this place" with this remake?

Masuda:
In 12 years, we had hundreds of thousands of customers to play and gathered their dissatisfaction in various forms. The operability here is bad, the enemy here is too strong, or conversely this is too tepid. As I had actually saved such things for 12 years, the basic policy is to verify each such thing one by one, reflect all things that can be reflected in the limited production period and budget.

G:
Rather than changing, do you feel like brushing up?

Masuda:
I agree. Another big thing is to add some of the ideas I'd like to do with the sequel, and I'd like to see what kind of response there is.

G:
Does that mean that new elements that appeared in the remake version could also appear in the sequel?

Masuda:
Yes. There are a couple of plans, and I have not decided yet which of them will be adopted largely or whether it will be the pillar of the game.

For example, it is an element that becomes stronger as it inherits a sword by a family and is taken over. Elements that God strengthens each time you confound. As a test case, I think that you can expand the part that can change such various things in the world of the dead under the interference of the player, in the sequel too much more. In remake version, we incorporate weapons inheritance and the growth of God among them.

Secondly,"Soul (married)"It brings in the data of others' s playing data into your own data. This is a world different from me in a sense. In the first place, I'm a corpse game that creates a world that I liked and playing like a box game. I would like to see what kind of response comes out regarding bringing someone else's data there.


Especially "soul" is not difficult to make as a system, but I did not know until I tried to implement this, whether I was interesting or not.

Actually, in the middle of development, when I tried putting four development machines side by side with my own data, I felt that it was obviously different from me but it was somewhat thrillingly exciting. I will see the family my programmer raised the same year. Then you can see what kind of policy he was playing. This is an exchange of fire skills with God who is higher, and this family is surely made up of these battle styles. Moreover, you can use that strategy in your own family. It is also interesting itself, I was excited about what kind of children can be combined with this family.

This is obviously a different kind of funny thing to my everyday, and at the beginning I felt bad. But, something unpleasant and very interesting is actually in the vicinity, in other words, with a feeling of laughing with a horror movie. I guess this is possibly a possibility to become a pillar. However, there is a feeling that it is still a different interest from me and at the same time there are also some who are certainly interested, and in how I do not know how generous this is There is also.

If this has generality, there are possibilities that you can exchange items, characters, enemies, shop menus, and more in various parts. In that sense, I am interested in how everyone will get interested in this "soul".

The other is raising the explosive power of 'merging' of mystery and art. However, it is very difficult for tactics. If you hit it, the power is certainly amazing, but it is very difficult to prepare. In order to combine mystery, at least two of the four parties must be in the same occupation. In addition, one of them is a child, the other one is a lifetime close, it is in some sense a dangerous combination. In order for these two people to shoot the mystery of the mystery, the other two have to go to support. To always keep this combination, you have to think considerably.


These tasks are extremely stoic. When planning, when you are confronted, children who are born are in such occupation, you must have this kind of defensive power by this time, people who think that it is interesting, How much is it about? With most of the people thinking "It is interesting to join mystery" with this, do not go any further.

G:
That's why I feel a little unhappy when the character I thought made is dead after being subjected to intensive fire. For those who play me dead for the first time in the remake version, it may seem a little difficult, but is there a remedy for beginners?

Masuda:
Basically, it does not mean that "home stops". For example, when the number of people is reduced, the death judgment in the case of returning to the home based on zero health, or the judgment that the twins become easy to be born, such parts are considerably adjusted. Even though the clan will be one person, the circumstance that no one of the clans is gone is not happening first.

G:
Indeed, it is necessary to think and think very much if you think that you want to make an ideal family, is that even if a beginner does not know it, does not it become a thing that the clan ceases to exist?

Masuda:
Even in that sense, it's a game for adults. Because being able to enjoy a situation that was forced to do is to be quite adults, it is impossible. If I am a child, I will reset it by saying "Chae". "It is cool if you can reconstruct from here," trying to become one, it is adult that such a margin can afford, that kind of fun also.

About social games


G:
For Masuda-san, what kind of thing is "interesting game"?

Masuda:
What is interesting is different for different people. I think that it is because what you are looking for is different. Some people simply play games for hours of crushing for about 15 minutes. I do not want to read novels, but there are also people who play games because it is troublesome to watch animation at a fixed time. Others say that they do not drink alcohol so that they can relieve stress.

Not only in the game but also in other media, some people like variety shows, others like Korean dramas. Everything is different, people are different. In such a situation, games that capture the major needs portion will inevitably be sold games.

G:
For example, while social games are currently in fashion, there are also criticisms that system such as item billing is overwhelming. In this trend, Masuda-san's game is for consumers only?

Masuda:
It is not limited to consumers. However, as I am a junior and senior high school parent, there are places where I think that it is impossible for children to do this billing. Of course, if you let the game run free and think that it is interesting, I think that you pay for people who made it later or pay in week or month. However, I think how about a system that pushes the shocking heart and pays money with just one button.

G:
Is that a problem of rules anymore?

Masuda:
Yes. That is pretty dangerous.

◆ The key to leading the team is "listen to the whole story"

G:
When making games, what is the most difficult place to feel?

Masuda:
In my case, when creating a game, there are two patterns as a position. One is when you start planning and make what you want to make. Secondly, in a producer-oriented situation, involved in the work of others. These two are different in difficult places.

After all it is dry as it is related to the work of others. It's not dry for what you are trying to do, but about the methodology is dry. For what I want to do, that will be sweet. Regarding what I planned for myself, there are many things "I thought I was going to sell a bit more". On the contrary, if it is the producer, "I sold better than expected!" There were many things. Both are difficult places.

G:
Creating games is done by the team, but are Mr. Masuda himself leading the team, are there anything particular to be aware of?

Masuda:
"Listen to the whole story". I listen to the whole story of how young people talk, and I decide at the end by myself. Indeed, I listen to the story of a part-time job girl who just entered seriously. That's exactly the same line that people in number 2 of the development team will comment on me. More to say, I listen to the story of the customer seriously. Therefore, as a result, we have taken in consideration the user's opinion considerably.

G:
Since users have many numbers and people with various attributes, I think that the contents are scattered all around and it is hard to capture.

Masuda:
I think about the cause on my own and return it to the staff, I will talk about "why did he think like this?" There are several causes, and we analyze it, but we have no answer in general. As to whether it is interesting or not interesting, there are advantages and disadvantages, so we will not answer so. But at that time someone has to decide, which may ultimately fail, but I will decide.

◆ The future of the game industry


G:
Looking at Mr. Masuda, what kind of game did you think was "amazing" in the game released so far?

Masuda:
I basically do not play games. Even if I say that this is amazing, there are only about 20 games that I've cleared so far (laugh).

G:
Is it so few? On the contrary, why did you think that 20 played it?

Masuda:
First of all, a game made by a acquaintance plays for when it is asked "How was it?" Even games that I made will do many times before the release, but I will not do it after release. Looking at the movie made by the user, I will verify it when "I can not get out of this damage," but as long as it is not so. Generally, because things that I do not know can not happen.

The other day, when I happened to be free, I told my acquaintance "This is funny"."Tokimeki Memorial"I started doing that. It is time of PC engine. I got a phone call and said, "Because this is sold out, let's go buy it in Akihabara now." There are only about 20,000 initial shipments, so I can sell it right away so I can go buy a phone from a certain editorial department and think if I tell that to that.

G:
What do you think will be about the future game industry?

Masuda:
I think that the framework of the game industry will become more and more ambiguous. People making games now make games themselves, but in terms of user interface gaming industry know-how is quite high. Compared to the ATM of a bank like an old woman calling a clerk, the operation of a game that is mainly targeting a child is very easy to understand, right?

But, I guess that saving such know-how is surely personal. I think that it is quite versatile if that can do the design design like I was doing at the university, such as "It will not be mistaken if children make it in this way" in some way.

After that it is learning software. It is because the children of our country are strong in geography"Momotaro Dentetsu"Because I am doing it. Remember all the special products etc, Miyazaki will come out immediately like green peppers.

That's pretty much entertaining, but not limited to geography, I think that the electoral system, for example, is also interesting. Trial and error until the election becomes the present form is interesting. If software that teaches the mechanism properly can be made, I think that you can easily remember the part like "Council's no confidence in the opinion of the House of Representatives".

Or, the logarithm you learn in high school. That was used by people who do business, roughly calculating unit without mistaking it, not to make a big loss. It is fun to watch the development process. In mathematics classes, when I tell "Log is", "I do not need it in real life" I think, but I think that if you actually use it in the game you will find fun. In the virtual currency of the game "100 million cheated!" But if you calculate it in logarithm, you do not do such a bad deception. Even if it is a virtual currency, everyone will be desperate if money is involved (laugh).

G:
As for the game industry, is that there is a growth in that place, is that that you can make money there as well?

Masuda:
It is worth paying for it that there will be demand rather than money to earn. It is a way of thinking that paying this amount of money is something that can not be profitably made even if you want to make money, and where you have the person who needs it, by making the necessary things.

G:
Finally, can you give me advice for people who would like to make games now?

Masuda:
Well, to be honest, I do not know the feelings of those who want to make games. I wonder what he wants to make a game for, though it is such a troublesome task.

E-mail and letters will come to me as well, "I want to make a game." But most of them are like, "Let's apply for a light novel prize." What is said of it is the presentation of the world view, the story that the character plays an active part, even if you try to do it in a game suddenly it can not afford a budget. Better than that, put it out with a light novel, everyone will be pleased if you make a big hit. In that sense, I often think that "it's not a game."

Probably, since I played games and grew up reading manga, games and manga would be familiar expressions. For example, "People who really healed themselves in the game, so I also want to heal others in the game", maybe even make delicious bread. It does not have to be a game. I think that it is better to think again about whether it really is a game.

There are a lot of jobs in the world, and even if it looks like routine work, there are many that are really creative work in fact. Knowing that kind of work, you should think about what you really want to do once again.

G:
Thank you very much.

"Beyond my dead" that was released on November 10. Currently, as a celebration of the launch celebrations for seven weeks "Beyond my tweets"Ongoing. Also, when you download itTrial Version God of Rare GotIt is also delivered.

© 1999-2011 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

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