Interview with Nazu Shimamura, author of 'Exorcist Urgent Recruitment' and 'Dialogue with Exorcist', the unknown reality of modern exorcism
There is an Exorcist training course in the Vatican that says, 'There is a devil. Prepare for the battle.'
The impression that I actually went to the preview is that the hair color is different from the past Exorcist movies, and while sandwiching impressive scenes in places, it is not words that describe what is happening now If you are not expecting to put green liquid, twist your neck, bridge and stick to the ceiling or run around like that, you can expect it It is finished in the above contents. Also, Anthony Hopkins who plays the Exorcist is the cause of 100%, but the movie itself has an unusual force, and the concept of funeral and devil is built in based on the Christian religion view It was a good impression.
That's why I got a chance to hear from non-fiction writer Nazu Shimamura who has a book about the Vatican's official exorcist who also appeared in this movie, so I asked questions that I actually felt in movies and books etc. I tried The contents of the interview are as follows.
◆ How did you become interested in exorcists?
GIGAZINE (hereinafter abbreviated as 'G'):
Looking at the contents of the books so far, it is said that there are a lot of things related to Italy, or most of it is related to Italy, but what kind of work do you usually work as a non-fiction writer?
Mr. Nazu Shimamura (hereinafter abbreviated as 'island'):
In everyday life, 70% or 80% of work is book work. Since the university was originally an Italian art major, my main job is to do field work in Italy and make it into a book.
G:
Is Italian also fluent?
island:
Italian has been around for 23 years, so it's long.
G:
That's about my second language, that's it.
island:
In poverty, people living there were longer. I came here and did mooks and so on, earning travel expenses to look up for books and repeating going to work again.
G:
It is amazing. Looking at the contents of the book, I was so detailed that I thought I was living in Italy.
island:
It was quite a long time in Italy before we got married.
G:
That's why it's a book about Italy.
island:
The first one was originally a serial murder of trial material.
G:
This is the very first book.
island:
Basically, I can't ask any questions unless I start with a trial term from scratch, so I felt like I was working.
G:
Do you feel like you started working?
island:
I agree.
G:
In the first place, it was very strange to read the book, but it was hard to understand how I became interested in the exorcist ...
island:
Originally, when I was a college student, my graduation thesis was Kiriko, that is, contemporary art, but I was worried about whether it should be Christian art or Kiriko until the last minute. That's why I come in from the art side. I can't read without knowing some Christian culture to read art work, so I'm writing a book of that kind right now, but I started from there. The fact that nobody knows, and there was a boom in junior high school, watching that movie (= 'Exorcist') on a road show, and moving to Italy in a progressive way and getting to know the Vatican I did it. In the Vatican there is a canon where you can make saints, but since you went through quite a bit, I became very close with the priest there. You have a lot of connections with people.
G:
That's amazing, listening to the story.
island:
It is interesting, it is quite easy.
◆ Demon image
G:
Did you see any exorcist-related movies when you actually wrote Exorcist books?
island:
I really like horror movies. In the past, I actually did a series of people who appeared in subs of horror movies, subs instead of protagonists. I like that much, and I love B-class horror.
G:
Indeed, it is written in very detail. I thought that various movies were written in detail.
island:
I like movies, I watch them in cinemas. It's rattle (laughs)
G:
I think there are quite a lot of Exorcist-related movies I've seen so far, aren't they?
island:
There was a regular boom, and the ones in the 70's are really the original, but have been every few years since then. It seems that Winona Ryder came out (= 'Lost Souls'), and when 'Emily Rose' came out, it was based on the true story of Germany, but the cycle was pretty Yes, I come regularly.
G:
How was this ' The Light-The Truth of the Exorcist- ' seen?
island:
Probably, people who catch the feeling of horror movies until now will eat the shoulder watermark. It's not something that scares me thoroughly. I think it's the first movie to touch something like Catholic doctrine for the first time.
G:
It was a type I had never seen before. It feels like it's pretty hard.
island:
Well, it ’s very hard for Oriental people.
G:
Look at the last minute and go with this kind of development ... wait a minute, this is a demon ...! It's like, but it's definitely a demon.
island:
The most difficult thing is that a movie is a visual reality, so you have to express it visually, but it's the hardest part, and the subject is an invisible being. In the middle of the theme is the invisible thing, but I think the most difficult thing is that you have to express it with the visible thing. That would make it seem stale hope for Orientals. Something beast-stained.
When you see 'paranormal activity', hooves come out, but Oriental people blow, 'Why are you horrified?' But after all, in the West, people of Christian culture, when they were under tremendous crackdown in the early Christian era, what the so-called pagan gods were very beast-stained, that is, at the expense of creatures How do you differentiate Christianity from the creature's blood-dried fur wearing a cathartic state and dancing crazy until it falls into a trance state? That was the initial theme.
So, Christianity dragged its remnants all the time into the devil's image, which has already repeatedly appeared in Hollywood films, such as red eyes with fangs, horses or mules. Anyway, it's the beast-stained, human beast-like place that is being driven to the devil. But it seems strange in the East where the soul may be reborn into an animal. In the sense that there is a difference, it may be the real pleasure of this movie (laugh)
◆ 'If you are in a hurry, look for another exorcist in the parish.'
G:
At the door of the first chapter of the book '
island:
It's true (laugh)
Recently, he also said that he must bring a commercial prescription, and he seems to not accept anyone without a prescription. For example, isn't there paranoia? Every time I listen to it from scratch, it's a motto, and basically 'free' is my motto, so when I do that, I'm really running into a temple. Of course, on the pros and cons, the majority of the Vatican is basically not talking about demons with personality. 'Please stop me, please'. However, in reality, people who are not well-accepted by modern medicine, including those who are mentally unstable, are rushing there, so it feels like I'm renewed.
G:
After reading that 'Exorcism is basically free', I thought that this would not be any different from a cult cult of the ordinary monetary supreme principle. How about that?
island:
Well, what is really strictly written in the doctrine is 'Do not pursue profits' and 'How good is that person in terms of personality?' For example, people who hide behind and have gay friends can quickly become scandalous, so it's no use (because Christian Catholicism prohibits homosexual sexual activity). If you're not a serious person, you're going to be in a trance like a movie. Some of them are hypnotic, and that can be a gossip later. Therefore, it is necessary to have a companion, such as a husband or a lover, of the person, so that they can be accompanied by holding down the body, so that they can not misunderstand.
G:
When I read about the procedure for exorcism, I sometimes thought, 'What is it?', But once I wrote it, I read, 'Oh, I see!' There are many.
island:
It's concrete.
G:
Conversely, write so far! I was surprised at that.
island:
I think there was a lot of misunderstanding that it was the Middle Ages, but in the present era it is true.
How did you contact the exorcist?
G:
Also, I actually met the exorcist and interviewed him. I was very wondering, what steps did this take to reach the interview? That is the point. The exorcist's phone number and address aren't on the town page either ...
island:
There was an exorcist who was very famous in Europe, the first of which was in 1999 and was a little modeled in the first exorcist film. I've heard rumors in many places, so I thought I'd write his story and went two months after I died. I thought I'd give up, but the church I went to was the first one I saw in Rome for 15 years, and when I opened the door, there was only a staircase inside. In addition, the stairs are said to be ascetic and go up while praying. I thought, 'A Roman church has become a corpse,' but it really lived as a kind of 'prayer place' and it was interesting in itself. And the inside is not dark, it's not a stairway to heaven, but it's already dark and you're going up there. I'm interested in the unique space and the fact that he was an exorcist there, so he started to research.
Then, the disciples were found more and more, and there were various disciples, some stopped fighting, others stayed in the mountains, and in fact, he became the true teacher this time. There are four major Vatican parishes under the name Father Carmine, and there are churches in four directions in a way that protects Rome, but it is a priest of one of them. He was the first person he met, and from there he followed many people and met several disciples. I guess about five people met.
Then, as I met the disciple, this time the disciple came to meet the people who were going through exorcism, and most of all, I became very close with the people who were in the mountains, I was dating for about a year and a half, including those who were there. After about a year and a half, I thought that this might be shown.
island:
Also, the patron saint of the Exorcist is Archangel Michael. So, the main character of this movie, his name is Michael. It's just too good (laughs)
In short, in the image of the last judge in Revelation, Michael leads the heavenly army, and the devil is the opposite. That's why there are so many Michael names in movies. In fact, if you solve a Hollywood movie with Christian symbols and theological symbols, there are many things that film critics blaspheme. I wrote that it was a B grade, poor mystery, but it was just a parody of the Old Testament, and there are many such things. The Japanese have not yet understood such a thing, so I think it would be interesting to know from now on.
Once again, the hero is actually Father Gary, but he was reborn as a young man because he had to be a Michael and have a drama.
Anyway, when I spend time with the exorcists or go to the sanctuary, I trust a little bit that I'm not a pagan and half-interested Give me Even if we stayed together for three days, we didn't show the first two days, we asked hard for the second night, and at last we had a little bit at the end of the third day.
G:
So that's it. After all, you have a lot of trouble in interviewing.
island:
Well, especially those who attend church have a lot of distrust, so it was hard to be trusted by those who attend, than an exorcist. The exorcist is a person who was also a doctor, so he is very calm, but the woman who passes is hardly speaking in the mouth about 'the devil', and it is a bit embarrassing that 'the devil possesses' I'm a modern person. However, he was swept around various hospitals, and his stomach had only about a quarter of the surgery.
G:
It's an example of a demon possession that was written in a book.
island:
Yeah, that's why people fall down as soon as something happens, so they still don't have the certainty as to what caused their physical upset. What I saw with her is a ritual this time, but in terms of rituals, I think that Christian 'exorcism' is a very good form. There must be something that lasts from ancient times. This is something that cannot be said in the Catholic religion, but I think that it is common to shamanistic exorcism in Japan, Kokkuri-san, fox possession, inugami possession, in fact. When entering the ceremony, they enter a certain trance state, and the person who receives the ritual is very beastly and abusive, so the prayers are monotonous, there is a certain rhythm, Is said to be healed. After all, it seemed that there was a reason to continue without reason, looking at it. I couldn't write both the previous book and this book this time because it was a short book, but there is a border in Italy.
G:
What is the borderline?
island;
Well, what is it? There is a ritual of Christianity up to this point, but there is a ritual that is not allowed from here, it has been going on since ancient times, he does not call it devil possession, but it is a summer festival At that time, especially women fall into trance. So, I start abusing in the church, convulsions and rattling, climbing the altar. It is a music orchestra that heals in much of southern Italy. There is a monotonous rhythm of a drum and about four more instruments, and the same minimal song is repeated. If you don't do that, you'll keep up with her trance and continue playing music all night. The music is also looking for a song that works for her.
It remains in Japan only as a musical term, and it is also found in the piano song Tarantella, and in folklore it was said that a person stabbed by a poisonous spider struggles and struggles with the poison, There's actually no poisonous spider on that side. So spiders are just metaphors. She struggles with being stabbed by a poisonous spider, but the spider's name also has various names, such as 'suffering spider' and 'water spider.' And there was music that matched it, and when I was just right for the music that I could best match, at the end, it really became a shrimp warp or a spider-like shape and rampage. The ceremony ends by crushing a spider that is invisible with your feet. It was something that lasted until about 1840.
G:
It's long.
island:
It's a long time, because I worked hard until the very end and finally became Christian. Now it is supposed that a saint named São Paulo heals them, but in the field it has begun to be said that they possess demons. However, the Catholic Church does not recognize this as a formal ceremony. Because it is obviously pagan. I do it in a church, but I don't admit it, and I don't like the press.
G:
I think the roots are the same.
island:
I think the same. So, in the Old Testament, the king, Saul, is healed by music. So there might have been some such feeling in ancient Judaism. Christianity, like all politics, has absorbed the good parts of the old religion. That's true even in rituals, after all. Anything that is really addictive to some physiological phenomenon that affects humans is still effective, so I think I've been choosing it.
It is often the media that the images of the 16th and 17th centuries are stuck very much, saying that we may return to the era of witch hunting in the Middle Ages, but in fact, the mass killed was Germany, I'm killing more countries that have a lot of philosophers who are said to be rational and are said to be utilitarian, and Italy is rather unlikely to kill. The origin is actually not correct at all, and at least the Bible is made during the early 400 years of Christianity, but during that time there is definitely an exorcist post. I guess that's because I got the believer through feeling, definitely.
G:
It wasn't clearly written in the book, but I thought I was reading it.
island:
I think it was a great effect. Perhaps the soldiers or the people with the ranks did not listen to me by saying `` fun '', but were sickly who had little social status or were narrowly dismissed People and widows and people who had trouble with their lives had time to listen, and in a sense they could not have their own position in society, so they listened very well to the story I think. Some people think that it is revolutionary, but to put it another way, it was easy to teach. At that time, after all, the healing of illness is a sure hand, even though the emerging religions are really approaching from there. So, exorcism was a two-sided relationship, and it was an important ceremony since the early Christian days. It is indeed in favor of Father Amolt to have a very long history, and I think their reading is more correct.
Isn't Jesus Christ the strongest exorcist?
G:
Certainly, in the book, 'Jesus Christ, he is the strongest exorcist,' I guess it wouldn't be nice to take such a view, that depiction.
island:
If you read about Marco, there's only that, it's just a miracle! Like
G:
From that perspective, Jesus Christ is the strongest exorcist! So, if you're not good at it, it's just a word.
island:
Because healing boys are surprisingly soft, and if your father says, 'Please cure if you can,' they will have a great shield, Christ. With a momentum like 'You said you can do it?' Then Dad suddenly switches his mind and says, 'I believe!'
It's not a big deal, actually. It's almost like Raphael's writing, it's a soft exoticism, but the other one gets tied to a chain at the graveyard and breaks when a villager tries to connect to the chain. That's why all the archetypes of Exorcism movies are there. The chains are broken and the ones they wear are broken, so it's uncontrollable, and it calls like a beast day and night. It is said that a person in such a terrible state will look at Christ and rush from the other side. Even in his case, after all, a word 'something' is away from him, jumps over 1000 pigs that were grazed in the distance, and the pig jumps down the cliff instantly and commits suicide That's a grand story. It's such a fancy thing, it's a great story not to worry why Romans do not record. But since this is the oldest Bible, the story of Marco is still the oldest, and probably the most likely remnant of those days.
In that sense, I think that there was a person who left such a strong impression. I don't know where and when I was born. So the exorcist, the visual is exaggerated, and there are certainly some parts that are simplified so that they blow a little, but I think there are all the ceremonial prototypes and everything in the Bible.
◆ A ritual for exorcists to actually exorcize
G:
In the description in the book, where the exorcist actually did the ritual of exorcism, he was allowed to be present as I said earlier, and witnessed the whole story, but I actually saw it in front of me How did you feel when you were
island:
A woman I knew well, and a normal person who didn't seem to be a very fanatic type, talked relatively cynical, and was probably not such an educated person, not from college, but grew up in a normal family I was married early with a young lady, weakened my terrible body and had a hard time, and I told such a story later, but until then, people who were talking about pilgrimage and talking about small people say that Kana ... In a trance state, after a while, when the exorcist repeats the prayer in Latin for a while, it looks like a film on the eyes, a black eyeball looks a bit gray ... There is a face inside. It's the same with hypnosis, but what is the expression of the person who enters the hypnosis state? ... It's a flat, flat, expressionless face, and she's leaning on a chair, saying that the expression changes a lot However, the movement like a snake was really interesting.
G:
What was it like? I did not understand the description in the book well ...
island:
As if the spine is pulled from above by a single snake, like a snake, it rises quickly and falls down. That's why it's like using your muscles and using what kind of muscle you should use. So when I was in college, there was a teacher who was doing Noguchi gymnastics, just like that. I use muscles that I don't usually use in my daily life. Perhaps something like a ritual trance state would evoke such a movement. It's the same in other cultures and in Oriental shamanism. Oh, and a few years later, I saw a Balinese dancer dancing in Bali, and there was something in common with the movement of a very good dancer of that dancer. Maybe a Christian priest comes over to missionary work and sees a Balinese dancer and says, 'Evil spirits are gone!'
G:
What does it mean to have a double voice when speaking?
island:
In fact, humans have two vocal cords, and lamas can train and train to produce two voices simultaneously.
G:
Is that kind of voice?
island:
A very loud voice and a low faint voice come out at the same time, which is quite scary and goose bumps.
G:
Does the volume of the voice feel quite loud?
island:
It is terrible big. It feels like it's always echoing on the ceiling of the cathedral. With a small body, such a low voice comes out of itself, but I think that it doesn't come out well, but that's where a high voice comes in. It may be because I have trained many times, but it is still amazing.
G:
Is it a completely different voice than the one you usually talk to?
island:
I've never heard of it, so I can't break it into two voices. It seems that a ventriloquist master can do it, two things at the same time.
G:
You are not a master but a general person, so you certainly don't know that.
island:
Yes, they are ordinary people. So what is a ceremony ... I think that the religion system of the present was certainly based on ancient religions. Entering such a trance state, humans are begging.
For example, it has always been the case that a large cow was slaughtered and bathed in the eyes, in the religion of ancient times, and perhaps Christianity, which was learned in various ways. To say that I am absolutely angry with the Catholic bishop, but I also feel such primitive things in the exorcism ceremony, and in a way, I feel like the modern distortedness that such a thing has completely disappeared . In other words, it is presumed that it is foolish to discuss invisible things, in modern times. But in fact, my grandpa died, my neighbors died suddenly in an accident, and I was drinking beer with me up to an hour ago, but I did not die if I drank together for another 30 minutes Doesn't that happen? At that time, it's the first time you think, 'Where does that person go?' No one has any proof of whether or not there is an invisible world. Even Einstein has not proven it. When that happens, you can't imagine that the back of the black hole can travel in space and time. That's what I put on hold without thinking. I think that a ritual is a tool that can make you think about what you have on hold. Or the entrance. That kind of phenomenon, such as when a psychiatrist who prescribed a lot of drugs did not get cured, or a lawyer who did not trust Catholic at all went to exorcism, such a phenomenon It is connected to. I think it is interesting in the intellectual sense.
G:
One of the most impressive things in the book is that even the ritual books used by most exorcists are to show to the doctor first, and that about 97% of the figures are not demon possession It is processed, and the remaining 3% or less 1% or less is supposed to be a real devil possession, but the ceremony that Mr. Shimamura actually attended is this 'real devil possession' Was that the case? '
island:
What did I attend?
G:
Huh.
island:
I don't think so. I thought that was a typical example of modern times, and until the end, neither the Exorcist knew nor any other priest or herself used the word 'devil'. However, it means that something strange happens. He is a demon or a spirit, an invisible being, a priest, so he believes 100%, but I don't know if it's like that, but she didn't say a word about it, It's common for her to have had four surgeries and many misdiagnosis based on her previous experience, so in today's world. I see that was the case.
In the first place, it is easy to think that Christianity is a monotheistic religion because it is a monotheistic religion, but there is a different way to say 'demons' apart from demons, and in Christianity there are countless 'devils'. I think it exists. 'Devil' is the existence on top of it, and although we are assuming, devils rarely come out directly. In Christian Mark, most of the words are 'demoni', but 'demoni' is also derived from the Greek word 'dimon', and is invisible to humans. Is said to be an invisible entity that gives That's the case with Greek philosophy, and Christianity inherits it as it is, but Christ said, 'The spirit possessed by a man jumped over 1000 pigs ...', that is 'Dimon' It's about Demoni. In Hollywood movies and Japanese, all of them are translated as 'devils', but I think it's actually better to translate them as 'evil spirits'. There are countless, evil spirits that may have any effect on the general public. So I feel that it is not so far from the haunted world of Japan.
◆ Exorcist circumstances not written in books
G:
'
island:
Well, at the time of 'Dialogue with the Exorcist', it was a little over two years in total. But before that, I started out because I had some interaction with the priests in the Vatican in the canon, but I was in constant contact with the disciples of the Father, so I was an Exorcist I'll send you information by email, such as the establishment of an international association or the coming meeting of a famous Russian exorcist. So, the next time I wrote 'Dialogue with the Exorcist', I had an Exorcist course in the Vatican Church, which was a great new piece of news in the media. The media of the United States was taken up quite a lot, and a Jewish woman of the members who participated first wrote a book called 'Vatican Exorcist', a person who participated in the same way this time Was a freelancer who wrote the non-fiction book part of this movie. Then, in Italy, the media in the U.S. became more and more interesting, and magazine specials began to be created.
island:
Exorcist who had only 30 when he was interviewing the priest before, there are about 200 next, and there is a sudden increase in movement in Italy, but 2000 AD Over the years, the number of exorcists in Italy, which was around 200, is now dictating that there are new moves in Poland and Mexico. In fact, while priests are declining in most developed nations, Latin America and Africa are almost three times as many as followers. It has been seen that Christianity is targeting this area, and the Vatican is in no way denied in that sense, and rather supports it. That is the new movement of the year 2000. The untapped land is China. It's hard to reach out (laughs)
G:
The book states, 'I've never heard of going to China or Japan to take exorcist courses.' Is there still nothing at all?
island:
The Jesuits were very strong when they first spread to Japan and China. The Jesuits originally did exorcism, so they were very aggressive, but when they brought them to Japan or the East, they probably heard about such things as 'fox possession' or 'dog god possession'. I think. So maybe the exorcism ceremony doesn't go well to increase Christian followers? I thought that I don't know if I really thought so, but at least there is a section where Japanese priests after persecution think so. Also, it is a characteristic of Christianity that the exorcism of shamanism and catholic exorcism are completely different, and when you say that both are actually the same, the world view collapses (laugh)
That's why there was a fox-possessed murder in Fukushima where six people, including the guru, were killed, in 1995 or 1996. In a country like Japan, where there is still a fox possession and a reality, there is a section where I thought 'devil' was just a nostalgia. Then, after the year 2000, the Church of Sao Paulo published a translation of Father Amot, so there were questions about the official website, and they had to announce official advertisements, and at this time the tone changed. .
◆ How do you cover the expenses for non-fiction coverage?
G:
The story is shifted, but it may be a guess story, but when I read non-fiction type things, I spend a lot of time on interviews etc., and in the case of such non-fiction type and documentary type The final problem when listening to stories in various places is that during the interview, and for such a huge amount of time, how did you finance the food to eat? I think ...
island:
Ah, basically, I cover the book on my own. Sometimes, for example, she has done a small series several times with Shogakukan, etc., and has given me only the travel expenses, but did this new book '
G:
That was pretty tough.
island:
Already a poor travel master (laughs)
Leave that consultation to me!
G:
Indeed, I was familiar with it since I was young, and I feel that it is flexible. Does that mean that you have created your own book project and brought it to the publisher?
island:
Almost so. I guess I've hardly ever asked to write it. It was about when I rewrote it as a new book.
G:
That's why you are writing freely. I read that I thought it would be terrible because the contents were written so that it would not come out with such a normal project.
island:
The first murder and slow food books take about five years to complete, so people in the same profession have said, 'Is this the opposite, usually four or five books a year?' Oh, it may be so (laughs)
G:
Although the name of the award has changed for '
island:
Hmm ………… Nothing special (laughs)
I don't, but I send the awarded book to the exorcists over there.
G:
How was the reaction?
island:
I was pleased. I have been told, 'Can you translate it into Italian?' Because I'm trying to canonize the Exorcist now. For the time being, I seemed to be gradually increasing from the 'good'. Also, Father Amolt, who is about 87 years old, has a huge fan, he said that the number of exorcism rituals exceeded 70,000 times, and he has updated Guinness, so he is probably the most holy It is early to be done.
G:
How did you count 70,000 times? I think ... did you do it every day?
island:
Everyone in every industry wants to put numbers (laughs)
◆ Exorcism by exorcists is not paranormal
G:
I thought that it was quite excellent, but the fact that the exorcist is rather a paranormal, phenomenal thing and a consideration and indication that it is a mental healing system from the second half is excellent That's right. How effective is exorcism, or 'exorcism', as a treatment for those who are actually barely stepping in front of mental illness?
island:
I was a Jung in psychology, but it was interesting that someone from the same Jung was very interested. In other words, two psychiatrists have completely different positions and do not get along well, but one of them is still inexperienced in psychology and the field is immature, so our prescription is very much the patient's suffering It is said that it is cool. He sees that the rituals of exorcism are wider and more accessible than humans, and there is a system inside which humans can understand. If anything, I think it was an extension of music therapy or painting therapy, a ritual of exorcism. I think it is. There's something like drama therapy, and it's probably like seeing it as a drama therapy.
The other person wants to draw a line in a sense as a Japanese person, and the direction is that 'the young man who killed a child must stay for a lifetime.' I'd like you to make the facility as large as possible, and hope that you stay out of it for the rest of your life if you can, but in reality, it's difficult to draw the line between abnormal and normal. I think that the system of how to properly call back those who are in between to this side is very important, and the second psychologist said that the people in this border went through the exorcism He said it was interesting. I don't think I'm a devil, but I don't know what it is, but it seems to me that exorcism seems to work. From the beginning, I thought there would be someone who believed in the existence of the devil or something like that. People who receive exorcism are very prejudiced to people like low-school aunts who only watch wide shows, but they are not, they are really just students, lawyers, etc. That's all.
G:
It is relatively wide.
island:
It was wide. There was a young man who broke his life once in yak. In that sense, there is a reflection on the genre of psychology and psychiatry, which is becoming a cold system of taking medication for mental illness together with a pharmaceutical company, and there was also a compromise I think it's an interesting phenomenon. In other words, to deny it is to say that it means that it does not go into the problem of those who are suffering at all. In that sense, the Exorcist was really a rush temple. On the contrary, if I say 'You do the exorcist,' I think it's a haze (bitter smile)
I'm always on the phone, I can't eat properly at night, and I think it would be hard if I had a mobile phone. That's why a dry exorcist is asking another young person for a secretary.
G:
Do you feel like putting one cushion in between?
island:
Otherwise, there will always be people who want you to exorcise, but for those who want exorcism, it's a matter of living or dying.
G:
That's true, and when that happens, we're urgently recruiting exorcists, and it looks like we're completely out of it.
island:
One of the great things about seeing a real Exorcist or Father Carmine is the ability to switch. While doing that heavy work, they enjoy jokingly and having fun when they eat, and these people think they are amazing, especially Americans.
G:
Exorcists have something tough mentally.
island:
Yes, it won't last without switching. People who are not good at switching will become neuroses. That's not an easy job anymore. So I think it's absolutely better than the priest who just says. Really a manual worker. And that's more because they have ears to listen to.
G:
It is impossible if you are not someone who is already able to do it. I thought that it was very interesting to read that exorcists heal people who can not heal with psychology or psychiatry, but in Chapter 9, `` Mental Health and Exorcism '', `` In the case of psychology, consultation Vector goes to the individual's internal experience, but if it's categorized as devil possession, the vector goes out, and the counselor has some responsibility, but not all. Alessandro Tamino, a psychologist at the University of Rome, says, `` I guess it's because I'm going outward. '' How did you hear this?
island:
I think it is. If you have a problem of your own, people who can't solve it will be depressed. Moreover, if you keep saying, 'No, there must be something. There must be something in your past!' After all, being able to entrust responsibility somewhere once means that if a psychologist tells you that it does not solve the problem, but rather rather makes you wry, I think that it is not likely to be like that. Once you are categorized into something like a common community of worried people, I think you will feel better. I tend to think that individuals and Italians and Westerners are surely able to make “individuals” very solidly, but they are not so different from Japanese people. There's a kind of common consciousness that makes it easier to categorize. Almost such spaces are disappearing even in the real space. In this way, there is a space where you can relax if you come to drink coffee, but if you try to talk about the spiritual story or the story of a father who died yesterday, there is no such place, modern society . After all, I feel that I share my suffering with others, including those, and I have a glance at seeing them with understanding. I think that there is a certain kind of effect if someone who believes in what is visible can snuggle up to those who are worried about what is completely invisible.
◆ How to write a non-fiction book
G:
The story changes a little, but I think that the content tends to be redundant because I am making such a non-fiction book, but I thought that it was amazing because it was pretty tightly organized, but this is Which method do you use, do you write once after collecting all the cores once, or write from the collecting point, and gradually make it?
island:
Oh, this is from where we collect. I collect it first, then collect it many times, many times, maybe five times more if I write it all, then cut it. For example, I heard a lot of stories about paranormal phenomena, but when I put them all, it looks like a Bible (laughs)
Because those who believe do.
G:
Then, at the very beginning, we collect as much as we can, and when we think we have quite a lot, we will start working on completing it as a book.
island:
I agree. The interesting thing about listening is that around the exorcists, there are various patterns of talking about suffering people, listening to stories of various people, such as family structure, incest and so on. In addition, all those who are exorcists are relatively smart people, and the ability to just read and listen to the other person and read ahead is certainly a human ability. I was convinced that Psychologists and those who make dream decisions also say that there is, in the sense, data, 'dream' in a certain sense.
Even psychologists, for example, can't become teachers without listening to the dreams of 200 or more days, so they all have that kind of experience. Then, there will be a lot of data that is “dream” as data. So, looking at the abilities of those who are the same as the exorcist, there is a certain sharpened thing, something like innate sensibility combined with that kind of ability I feel like
For example, when one of his disciples dies in an accident, he sees his vision behind a dark church. I wonder if I could believe such a story without reason. That said, I don't know how far the story of the demon-possessed monks is going to grow, though (laughs)
It's a bit different when you hear from Father Amolt and from another disciple, and when you hear from Father Amolt, 'Pasta has become an earthworm!' I will go to the place.
◆ Exorcist latest information
G:
Did you find out in the book that you did not write, but did you look further after it was completed? Some sort of exorcist-related information that isn't included in the book. It's weird when it comes to the latest information.
island:
Oh, young people are coming in.
G:
A young person?
island:
At that time, all the disciples of the priest who were exorcists were in their forties. So, people in their 20s and 30s came out from there. A dad who is out now and is named Nanni is already in his forties, but Father Amolt, who often appeared on TV, is already in his eighties and can fall anytime. Father Nanni reigns as the media-ready exorcist following him. The beard is also shaved neatly, it's too beautiful (laughs)
I really want to go out. Underneath Father Nanni are the children in their twenties. Listening to this Exorcist course, some young people came up to write their own dissertations and do their own work. I wonder if this is an interesting trend.
G:
Why did young people start to appear?
island:
After all, when the social gap widened in the 70's and 80's, the number of social boys who would go to the town without leaving the layer of going to the poverty cave or going to the immigration problem increased. Yo. On the extension of such a trend, this time we will face a mental illness, invisible poverty, even a child living in the middle of a very rich city, has great suffering inside, It's a modern thing that comes out in various forms, so let's look at it properly. I think in a good way young children understand the goodness of the old rituals and face the current and social issues.
G:
Thank you very much.
・ 'The Light-The Truth of Exorcist-' is being shown nationwide
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