Interview with Shiro Yamazaki, supervised by subtitle science for the movie 'TENET', what are the points to enjoy the work?



Christopher Nolan's latest work 'TENET Tennet ' released on September 18, 2020 (Friday) was designed by Nolan, who has worked on works such as 'Memento ', ' Inception ' and ' Interstellar' for many years. A work that embodies the concept that has come. The director himself finally made his favorite spy action movie, which he thought 'I will not touch it unless something new is blown in', so it is unusual for him to be full of energy. Therefore, there are many parts that are difficult to understand at a glance, so this time, Shiro Yamazaki, an assistant professor of physics at the Tokyo Institute of Technology, who was in charge of science supervision with Japanese subtitles for the work, helped me during the appreciation. I've heard a lot of such information.

Movie 'TENET' official site | Big hit screening
https://wwws.warnerbros.co.jp/tenetmovie/

GIGAZINE (G):
If you prepare for ' TENET Tenet ' without spoilers in advance, what do you need to know to get closer to the essence of the fun of 'TENET' in the first appreciation?

Shiro Yamazaki (hereinafter referred to as Yamazaki):
Well ... it may not be the answer to the question, but I am in a position to explain and analyze various things, but to put it in the extreme, 'you can forget about that.'

G:
(smile)

Yamazaki:
'TENET' is not a movie that learns the logic of science, and if you think that it is a production. Some people said in the movie, 'Don't think, feel', but that's one of the answers. However, if anyone wants a little more help, 'retrograde time' is the same time walking from Tokyo to Yokohama and then walking back from Yokohama to Tokyo. It means to think. Just as it takes a year to go from the past to the future one year ahead, it takes time to walk back from the future to the past instead of jumping instantly. I think it's better to understand that it's just like 'traveling time' rather than warping, so you don't get confused.

G:
I see, it's all connected by a continuous line.

[Be careful if you haven't seen the movie, as it contains more information than what is included in the trailer]

Movie 'TENET' special notice released on September 18, 2020 (Friday) --YouTube


G:
Mr. Yamazaki also gives a lecture to watch 'Interstellar' about 50 times and explain it scientifically. What was your understanding of 'TENET' when you first saw it?



Yamazaki:
I think it was about 20% now. Since I was in the position of supervising subtitles, I had the opportunity to see it before the theatrical release, but since I am in a responsible position, I only understand about 20% even though I thought that I should be able to answer everyone's questions. My first impression was that 'this has taken on a tough job.'

After watching it, I had a discussion with the people around me, but everyone had already seen it so many times that I couldn't keep up with the conversation, and I was convinced that it was that kind of thing. I was disappointed (laughs)

G:
(smile)

Yamazaki:
First of all, I don't understand the word at once. 'Protagonist', which means the main character, but when I first saw it, I didn't think about it at all, so even if I was talking about 'Protagonist ...', the meeting was held without knowing what it was. I've been moving forward. On the other hand, regarding the scientific part, the contents of the textbooks I have studied so far came out, such as 'positrons came out', 'antiparticles, entropy, retrograde time', so I wonder if I understood a little earlier. It's like that.

G:
This time, you are involved in the position of 'supervising subtitles'. What kind of work do you do?

Yamazaki:
'TENET' is not a movie that explains science, but basically a spy action movie. However, there are multiple scenes where scientific words appear. Translators who add subtitles translate only with scripts without watching the video at the time of work, so everyone should watch the video later and proceed to check if the words match the video. Will be. For example, the word 'turns tile' appears in this work. The translator translated this as 'revolving door', so it's like actually watching the video and confirming that 'I see, I wasn't wrong with the'revolving door''.

Among them, there are some parts that cannot be understood without scientific knowledge about how to use words such as 'entropy increases, decreases, and reverses', so I checked them sentence by sentence. In the case of 'retrograde time', in Japanese, in addition to 'retrograde', there are various other wording options such as 'reversal of time', 'reversal of time', or 'reaction'. The task is to find something that is scientifically correct and easy to understand as movie subtitles. I did it for about 30 sentences.

G:
How long does it take?

Yamazaki:
The science supervision itself actually took only about two hours. However, the work after that was bigger ... The translator was also in trouble because the content of the movie was difficult, so I was invited to 'please come to see it again', and in the end, I saw it 5 times. rice field.

G:
5 times!

Yamazaki:
I think that it is the most, excluding those in the company. Instead of just watching a movie, I repeated the process of putting together a presentation for about 12 hours or more each time I watched it. It's a PowerPoint document called 'Science of'TENET'', but it's already over 100 pages. After seeing it, I was asked questions about parts that are still difficult to understand, such as 'Why do you get old while going backwards' and 'Why didn't you wear a mask in that scene?' Hey. The part of such total care is about 30-40%. The hardest part was making a movie pamphlet, which took about 60% of the time. The amount of work was very large and it was difficult. So, the scientific supervision of translation itself was about 5% of the total in terms of time.

G:
For Mr. Yamazaki, what do you think is the point that the general public is likely to get caught in?

Yamazaki:
I think the biggest point is that it is a little different from time travel. Time travel jumps from the past to the future and from the future to the past in an instant, but in 'TENET Tennet', you walk back slowly from the future to the past, just as you walk slowly from the past to the future. It's called 'retrograde' in the movie, but it takes time for me to get used to it, and by the time I accept it, it's an end roll (laughs).

G:
(smile)

Yamazaki:
The rest is a mixture of retrograde and prograde. It's a car chase and a cross-examination scene. It's easy to understand if it's only forward or retrograde, but it will be combined.



G:
In fact, to what extent is this unprecedented 'retrograde time' theory feasible?

Yamazaki:
The phrase 'possible or impossible' means 'almost all impossible'. Time goes backwards because the universe was created in 13.8 billion years and has never happened. If you think about it by building a logic that presupposes 'if you can go backwards in time' ... In this case, you can create a so-called 'textbook that goes backwards in time' like 'gravity remains the same even if time goes backwards'. I'm going to go, but to be honest, there are some contradictions in the details in the movie. I think that there is a place like that in the production.

G:
Director Nolan also said, 'A story made loosely based on actual science' (laughs)

Yamazaki:
A common question is when a car explodes. It says 'it explodes and freezes', but I answered 'you shouldn't think too deeply' about that (laughs).



G:
How (laughs)

Yamazaki:
Of course, I wondered what the logic of that part was, but it's easier to think that this is a production (laugh) There are some parts like that, but it's enough if you can understand the rest. I think not.

G:
Does that explosion and freeze feel like 'I can do it if I want to make sense ...'?

Yamazaki:
I know what the motif was when I made that kind of scene. The same was true for 'Interstellar', but 'the part that visualized the scientifically correct part as it is' 'the part that visualized with the addition of' dream 'although there is a scientific motif' 'there is no scientific meaning' There are three stages, 'the part that is visualized', and that example can be said to be the second stage.

G:
I see, there are stages.

Yamazaki:
I think the motif is probably the 'law of increasing entropy' in thermodynamics. Normally, heat is transmitted from a hot place to a cold place, and finally reaches the same temperature. However, if it is distorted this time, the time is going backwards, so I wonder if the nuance is that the heat is 'biased' rather than 'becoming the same temperature'. It's an image that the surrounding area gets colder because it's hot due to the explosion.

G:
Oh, I see.

Yamazaki:
However, there is a contradiction in this that 'the temperature can not be lower than room temperature' ... That is a strange part, but since there is a motif, it makes me think 'It is such a director Nolan's production'. I think it's good.

G:
Hmmmm.

Yamazaki:
On the other hand, there are various parts that I thought were 'correct' and 'interesting'. What I thought was the best was the scene where the hero's nameless man stepped on a puddle when he first entered the world of retrograde. I thought it was a very correct and good depiction. In a normal world, you can splash water by stepping into a mirror-like calm puddle. The orderly surface of the water ends in disorder. This means that the entropy is increasing. On the other hand, 'the scattered water gathers on its own and returns to a clean surface' means that the entropy is decreasing, and it never happens in the ordinary world. In the action scene, both the explosion and the appearance of the explosion contracting and returning came out, but instead of 'the orderly thing called a bomb scatters', 'the materials of the disjointed bombs gather and return to the bomb'. , A decrease in entropy.

G:
So that's it…….

Yamazaki:
I also think about two points in my daily life, 'I wish there was a decrease in entropy,' and one is that the room and desk can be cleaned up without permission.

G:
(smile)

Yamazaki:
Everyone, it gets dirty more and more on the desk. When a physicist's joke points out that 'the desk is dirty', there is a reply that 'this is not cluttered, but the law of increasing entropy' (laughs), but when entropy decreases, this is selfish. It will be tidied up.

G:
Oh, good ...

Yamazaki:
The other is food. For example, if the ingredients in the bowl contain shiitake mushrooms, some people say, 'I hate shiitake mushrooms, so I can't eat them all.' I also have a little likes and dislikes ... You have green pepper steak, stir-fried beef, peppers and bamboo shoots. But I hate peppers and bamboo shoots a little, so I'm thinking, 'Why do you mix them? However, if you reduce the entropy, it will be divided into beef, peppers and bamboo shoots on the plate, so you only have to eat the beef after that. If you can control the entropy, you can eat that way.

G:
So that's it.

Yamazaki:
The simple thing is that if you put too much sugar in your coffee, it usually won't go back, but if you can reduce the entropy, you can get the sugar out of the coffee. I will end up. It might be interesting if you could use it like a special move. 'TENET' might have been easy to understand if it was about that.

G:
Certainly if it was that easy (laughs)

Yamazaki:
If it feels like 'holding your hand reduces entropy'.

G:
That's right, if you ask me, even mixed things can be restored. Even if you sprinkle lemon on the fried chicken, you can put it back, and even if it is mixed like perfume, you can put it back to the point of what kind of thing was mixed.

Yamazaki:
That's it. If I can bring back the entropy, I have a lot of dreams. I wouldn't tell anyone, and I would continue to use it steadily until I won the Nobel Prize in Physics (laughs).

G:
In fact, if you discover 'retrograde time' or 'decrease in entropy' that has never happened, is it definitely a Nobel Prize?

Yamazaki:
If you can discover a phenomenon like 'TENET', you should think that a new award with the name of the discoverer will be created rather than the Nobel Prize.

G:
I'm already there.

Yamazaki:
I can't do it, but that's what happens.

G:
Since it is difficult to understand how the characters are moving in 'TENET', the diagram showing the time axis and the forward and reverse of the characters was gaining popularity on Twitter.



Yamazaki:
There are some parts that are a little more like this, but it is correct as a rough flow. I also created my own timeline for the main characters, Neil, Saita, and Cat. As mentioned in the pamphlet, the car chase is really complicated, there are four cars, forward and reverse, with the main character, Neil, Saiter, Cat moving, and more. Since the case containing plutonium-241 and the main body move differently, it is an extremely complicated diagram in which six things change one after another. I think that no one is doing that.

G:
The car chase part is not a mess, it is a fairly correct depiction.

Yamazaki:
Within the framework of the work 'TENET', it fits in almost without contradiction. In particular, the movements of cars, people, and things are moving properly so that they can be graphed.



G:
Oh.

Yamazaki:
The only strange thing is human motives. I think there is a motive of 'running away from him' and 'chasing him', but for some reason, even though I'm trying to 'run away from him', when I think about it carefully, there is a part that says 'chasing him'. increase.

G:
Is that so.

Yamazaki:
In the car chase scene, some cars chase after the main characters' cars in the background. From our point of view, that is 'chased by an eerie retrograde car', but from the perspective of those who are retrograde, it means 'being chased by the hero'. In other words, they are running away rather than chasing. They are running away from each other.

G:
Oh, I see.

Yamazaki:
Originally, the direction of both cars is the same and there is no choice but to chase or run away, and it is possible for the car to chase and run away from the front and the rear, but if you think about it with motive It's strange. It goes through when you think of it as 'a state like a car chase presentation', but when you think about 'why did the seater do that?' I wonder if he was training the main character '(laughs), but it is correct except for that part.



G:
(smile)

Yamazaki:
'TENET' should be much closer to our senses than any other time travel stuff. Time travel is a time version that instantly warps from Yokohama to Tokyo, but in reality, as you walk, you get stuck in traffic and you have a hard time. In the same way, moving to the past will return while living in real time. In the movie, there was a scene where the main characters lived in a container while going backwards, but I also really liked that sober retrograde scene. It's full of reality. It doesn't have a great CG effect like some movies, it just lives in a container while breathing retrograde air. I thought it was a very real movie.



G:
If I knew this before watching 'TENET', it might have been easier to understand ... (laughs)

Yamazaki:
However, the first time I dare to get completely confused. You can only have that experience for the first time. I've seen it 5 times and there are still many things I don't understand, so I'm thinking of seeing it about 50 more times (laughs).

G:
Thank you for today.

'TENET Tennet' directed by Christopher Nolan is on a national road show. The pamphlet also contains quite detailed information, so if you are worried about the mystery, please read it. It was sold out on the weekend of the public week, but that situation has almost disappeared.

◆ 'TENET' work information
Director / Screenplay / Production: Christopher Nolan
Production: Emma Thomas
Executive Producer: Thomas Hayslip
Starring: John David Washington, Robert Pattinson, Elizabeth Debicki, Dimple Kapadia, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Clemence Poésy, Michael Caine, Kenneth Branagh
Distribution: Warner Brothers Movie
© 2020 Warner Bros Entertainment Inc. All Rights Reserved

◆ Profile of Shiro Yamazaki
Shiro Yamazaki (Doctor of Science, Department of Physics, Tokyo Institute of Technology)
Completed the doctoral program at the Department of Physics, Graduate School of Science, the University of Tokyo. Doctor of Science. Received the 10th Young Scientist Award of the Physical Society of Japan for research on quantum physical properties. He has held nearly 100 meetings nationwide to explain 'Interstellar' (2014) with the theory of relativity, and continues to contribute to magazines and serialize on the web. He was also selected as a lecturer in quantum mechanics and theory of relativity at Tokyo Gakugei University. He has the nickname of Dr. Koma, who won the Koma War, and has appeared on many TV programs such as NHK. Author of 'Science of Dokuraku' (Kodansha Bluebacks).



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