Interview with directors Haruko Kuno and Nobuhiro Yamashita of 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' and how they used rotoscoping to create the film, with the actors' performances as a guide for the drawings



The animated film 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' was released on Friday, July 19, 2024. This film is a film adaptation of the manga by Imashiro Takashi that was serialized in Comic Bonbon, and the production used rotoscoping, a technique in which live-action footage is turned into animation. We had the opportunity to speak with Director Kuno Haruko , who produced the rotoscoping, and Director Yamashita Nobuhiro , who shot the live-action footage that became the basis for the film, and we asked them a variety of questions about the background and process of the production of the film.

Official website for the movie 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan'
https://ghostcat-anzu.jp/

GIGAZINE (hereinafter, G):
When I saw the trailer for this film at the cinema, the images made a strong impression on me.

Trailer for the movie 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' [Released on July 19, 2024] - YouTube


G:
I just saw your name in a recent McDonald's commercial , and I thought that both of your commercials were characterized by warm colors. Was that something you were aiming for?



Director Haruko Kuno (hereinafter, Kuno):
The staff who decides on the colors for the McDonald's commercial and 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' are different, so my own color preferences may be coming out. In the case of 'Anzu-chan,' Julien De Man is the art director, and I think that's why the colors are used a little differently from normal anime.
(Note: This is a Japanese-French co-production produced by Shin-Ei Animation and France's Miyu Productions , with Julien De Man as art director and color designer.)

G:
In a special interview video by Wacom , Director Kuno said, 'I've always wanted to see something a little different from the anime that's out there now,' and 'Every now and then I feel the joy of coming across something I've never seen before, even though it's what I was looking for.' So I thought that this was a reflection of your desire to express something different from previous anime. What do you think?

Kuno:
Yes, I wanted it to be something that looked a little unfamiliar. If people got the impression that it was something a little unusual, then I think I've come a long way.

G:
I would like to ask you again about the background of the project. In terms of adapting Imashiro's work into a film, Director Yamashita has adapted 'Hard Core' (original story: Marei Karinou/art: Takashi Imashiro) into a film. When the film adaptation of 'Hard Core' was announced, Director Yamashita passionately commented, 'A friend asked me, 'Why are you adapting 'Hard Core' into a film now?' I don't know if 'now' means this time or in my career as a director, but in any case, in the face of the masterpiece manga 'Hard Core,' the times and my career don't matter.' This will be the first time Imashiro's work is adapted into an anime, so what was your first impression when you heard that it was going to be adapted into a film?

Director Atsuhiro Yamashita (hereinafter referred to as Yamashita):
I wonder if the planning for 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' started before 'Hard Core'...?

Kuno:
Yes, I guess the timing is probably similar.

Yamashita:
I felt that I had done my best with Imashiro-san's work with 'Hard Core,' and I was surprised to see him continue with 'Anzu-chan,' but I was genuinely happy. I thought that 'Anzu-chan' was suitable for a video work. I hadn't thought of it as an anime, but I was happy when I heard that they were going to make it into a feature-length anime, and I was prepared for no reason to turn it down.

Kuno:
For me, it was my first full-length film, so I was really happy to be able to make it. Also, I've been watching Yamashita-san's work since I was a student, and I thought he was good at extracting the cute parts of human acting, so I thought that if I were to work with him on 'Anzu-chan,' we could keep those parts even in the animation, and it would definitely be interesting. It was about eight years ago when we started, so I was pretty carefree about it (laughs).

G:
I heard that the anime project for 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' was started by Producer Keiichi Kondo of Shinei Animation, who had previously worked as an assistant director for Director Yamashita, and that the opportunity arose when the 'Anzu-chan' book was on-site at the time. Did Director Yamashita have the desire to do something with 'Anzu-chan' from that time on?

Yamashita:
Certainly, since the office was the staff room, I brought in books from my house, and I had left 'Anzu-chan' there in the hope that it would be made into a movie, but I never thought that Kondo-kun would bring it there (laughs).

G:
(lol)

Yamashita:
At the time, there had been no concrete progress, but I truly never imagined that Kondo-kun, who was an assistant director at the time, would read it and take the time to turn it into a movie.

G:
Director Yamashita, you said that you were already acquainted with Imashiro when 'Anzu-chan' was being serialized, but in preparation for this film adaptation, did you receive any requests from Imashiro, or were there any parts that you confirmed with him?

Yamashita:
Basically, after I got permission to make it into a movie, I was left to my own devices. In the end, I had the opportunity to meet with Mr. Kuno and the three of us before the filming started, and he gave us a lot of advice, so we made it into a movie.

G:
What kind of advice did you receive from Imashiro-san?

Kuno:
It was more like he gave me advice or ideas. At the end of the movie, there was a scene where youkai came to the festival to help, and at the time of the script, the youkai were supposed to fight and help, but Imashiro-san said, 'No, they're going to get beaten up.' (laughs)

G:
Beaten to a pulp (lol)

Kuno:
So I changed the plot to one where the monsters get beaten up. I went along with the ideas that were presented to me, and expanded on the ideas I heard.

G:
It's quite rare to see a plot where someone comes to the rescue at the end of the story only to get beaten up one-sidedly (laughs). Was that Imashiro-san's idea?

Yamashita:
I was left to decide on the main plot, but he gave me advice on revising the details and minor episodes.

G:
The film was produced using rotoscoping, a technique in which pictures are drawn based on live-action footage, and a comparison video has also been released showing the live-action footage of Mirai Moriyama playing Anzu with cat ears and the animated footage side-by-side.

Movie 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' [Live-action/animation comparison special video] [Released on July 19, 2024] - YouTube


G:
Not only are the costumes worn by Goto Nozomi, who plays Karin, and the two delinquent boys almost identical in both the live-action and anime versions, but I also saw an episode where Mizusawa Shingo, who plays the poverty god, took on filming in the middle of summer wearing just a loincloth, just like his character. Did the non-human characters also dress like their characters?

Kuno:
Well, for the character Frog, I had him wear a green polo shirt and green pants, and for the old woman, who is the only yokai who wears a kimono, I had her wear a kimono.



Kuno:
Probably the character that is furthest from a human form is the mushroom man, who is wearing a backpack with a large umbrella attached to his back to give the impression that he is a mushroom.



G:
Oh, I see. It's modeled after a mushroom.

Yamashita:
I tried to make the silhouette as similar as possible.

Kuno:
While trying to act as a guide.

Yamashita:
For the characters who are wearing clothes, we had them wear similar clothing so that the creases and details of the clothes would show up.

Kuno:
I think most of the humanoid characters were left as they were.

G:
When comparing the images, you can see that the details of the clothes are drawn to match exactly, but was that because there was a live-action costume that was reflected in the character design? Or were the costumes created based on the character design?

Kuno:
It matches the costume. This time, the costume was handled by Daisuke Iga , who has worked on many live-action works, but also worked on styling for anime works, so he knows how much detail remains when it becomes an anime. After Iga-san brought out the costume, the color was handled by the French side, but I think they respected that.

G:
Did you pretty much leave it up to the French side when it came to the colors?

Kuno:
Since we were also shooting live-action footage, we first had the actors try on their costumes, and then based on that, the French side looked for the best colors for each character, and then I checked the colors they had decided on, and if there were no problems, we went with them.

G:
How did the filming proceed this time? In a conversation between Director Kuno and Director Yamashita, Director Kuno said, 'I asked Director Yamashita to shoot as usual,' so it doesn't seem like the filming was done according to the anime storyboard.

Yamashita:
Normally, when I'm shooting live-action footage, I hardly ever cut storyboards. Instead, I watch the acting on set and then discuss with the cameraman how I want to cut it up.



G:
I see.

Kuno:
First, we shot the entire thing in live action and then edited it. There were some parts of the action scenes that could only be done in animation, so there are gaps in those parts. We put together the entire footage and then made fine adjustments to the editing to turn it into animation.

G:
Rather than working on a cut-by-cut basis, the whole thing was first completed as a live-action version, even with some parts missing, and then the rotoscoping was used.

Kuno:
That's right.

G:
I saw on the official SNS that the part depicting Anzu-chan's growth from when she was picked up until she became a monster cat was not rotoscoped but fully animated . In this scene where Anzu-chan is picked up during the day, the sunlight is drawn with dotted lines, which is a very manga-like expression, and I thought, 'So that kind of expression is used too.'

Movie 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' [Special video opening edition] [Released on July 19, 2024] - YouTube


Kuno:
In the original manga, there is a sun that looks like a painted figure, and I liked that, so I recreated it. Because there are parts that become more realistic when produced using rotoscoping, I wanted to make the manga-like parts really manga-like.

G:
Ah, I see. Certainly, the backgrounds that Imashiro-san draws are very manga-like.

Kuno:
In Imashiro's manga, other than 'Anzu-chan,' there are also scenes where sweat or other things come out beyond the outline of the character's body. In those kinds of ways, he stays faithful to the original in strangely small details.

G:
There's a cartoon symbol representing sweat floating next to Anzu-chan's face (lol); I thought, 'It's like a very cartoonish expression that's been faithfully conveyed in the video,' but it turns out that was exactly what Imashiro-san intended to do, to portray the expressions in his manga as they are.

Yamashita:
The details are exactly the same as in the original.

Kuno:
I wanted to recreate that scene visually (laughs).

G:
So that's how it comes out when you make it into a video.

Kuno:
I'm hovering (lol)

Yamashita:
Even fans of the original work probably won't notice it (laughs).

(Everyone laughs)

G:
It's been about eight years since the planning of 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' began, and in the meantime, Director Kuno and Director Yamashita produced the promotional video for 'Culture City of East Asia 2019 Toshima'. This was a job that was done around the time that the script for 'Anzu-chan' was being worked on, but was there anything that you learned from doing it, anything that gave you confidence, or anything that you felt would be a challenge?

'East Asia Cultural City 2019 Toshima' Promotional Video (Full Version) - YouTube


Yamashita:
This 'East Asia Culture City 2019 Toshima' was my first rotoscope work, but I was able to get a general idea of how it was made, and I was able to feel how various things expand or swell when turning live-action into animation, so rather than being difficult, I interpreted it as 'you can do a lot of different things.' With live-action, there are various obstacles to shooting on location, such as weather and sound, but by ultimately turning it into animation, those small stresses on the site disappear. There was no lighting man on site, and only the camera crew was there, so I was able to concentrate and immerse myself in the direction.

Kuno:
For me, it was my first time working with Director Yamashita, but I think it was very meaningful that I was able to learn what rotoscoping is by working with the live-action staff. I didn't have much experience with rotoscoping, so at first I thought about how realistic it should be and how much anime-like things should be brought in. On that basis, I tried to lean towards realism for 'East Asia Culture City 2019 Toshima', but when it comes to a long film like 'Anzu-chan' with a story and a character with a strong deformation, I thought that if I leaned too close to realism, the meshing might be a bit bad, even after watching the pilot video of 'Anzu-chan'. The balance of realism and how much to deform and how much to leave the actors' acting intact are things I had been searching for all the time until I made 'Anzu-chan'.

G:
In terms of acting, Moriyama Mirai, who plays Anzu-chan, is both an actor and a dancer, and was the perfect casting choice, but was Moriyama's name mentioned for the role of Anzu-chan from the beginning?



Yamashita:
Moriyama's name was mentioned from a very early stage. He participated in the pilot version we made four years ago, and even though we hadn't yet begun shooting the feature film, I told him, 'This is the kind of project I have in mind,' and he was on board... Of course, I had confidence that Moriyama would be up for a challenge like this (laughs), but from my perspective, I felt that Moriyama was the best.

G:
I don't think actors have many opportunities to act in the live-action parts of a rotoscoped film, so I wonder if the actors had any trouble on set. I wonder if it was no different from shooting a normal live-action film.

Yamashita:
Moriyama-kun didn't seem particularly confused. I think everyone was mentally converting the fact that their movements and acting would be animated. The easiest to understand is Mizusawa-san, who plays the poverty god, who appears wearing only a loincloth, but I think he came up with a plan that was more conscious of the anime than his usual acting. It's a small thing, but I thought that the movement of wiping the toilet water with a loincloth was made with the anime in mind. Everyone seemed to be 'matching the character.'

Kuno:
I felt that the yokai in particular were extremely exquisitely tuned.

Yamashita:
On the other hand, Shohei Uno, who played King Enma, didn't move around as much as he usually does (laughs).

G:
(lol)



Yamashita:
This really brings out the power of King Enma, and I think everyone had put a lot of thought into how it suited the character.

G:
If you were to compare this to animation, would there be anything missing that's different from the movements that the actors use in live-action films and dramas?

Yamashita:
In that respect, it may have been more difficult for the human roles, such as Nozomi Goto who played Karin-chan and Miwako Ichikawa who played the mother, than for the monsters. I feel that monsters and deformed characters gave me more opportunities to try out different things, such as how far I should exaggerate my acting.



Kuno:
It was interesting to see that each actor had their own plan.

Yamashita:
I think the person with the least plan is probably Suzuki Keiichi.

(Everyone laughs)

Yamashita:
It was just like Keiichi.



G:
That naturalness is what makes Osho-san so special (laughs).

Kuno:
I think that's the one that remained in the anime the most (laughs).

G:
According to Director Kuno's X, the animation directors, Yukie Nakauchi and Namiko Ishidate , were classmates in college and helped each other with their graduation project, ' Airy Me .' Do you usually talk to each other about things like 'Let's help each other out when we have a difficult job'?



Kuno:
No, no, they are both independent and have their own jobs, so although they helped me out of kindness as classmates in college, we never worked together as a trio. I was in an animation class in college, but there weren't many of my classmates back then who still work in the anime industry, so when I asked them if I could work with them, I was very happy when they said yes. They are both first-class artists, so it was great that they understood what I was aiming for and drew for me.

G:
Was this an offer you made on a whim, thinking it might not be possible but you'd still like to ask?

Kuno:
Ishidate-san has worked as a character animation director for commercial anime, while Nakauchi-san has been busy as an illustrator with many jobs that are not related to TV anime, so we didn't really expect either of them to give us the OK.

G:
Ishidate-san responded on social media to the part showing Anzu-chan transforming into a monster cat by saying, ' My part is coming out, ' and since he has uploaded lots of photos of cats in other posts, I thought, 'So that's why the cat part is my part.'

Kuno:
Actually, I drew this before I had a cat (laughs).

G:
Huh! (laughs)

Kuno:
I thought that Ishidate-san was good at drawing Anzu-chan cutely, and Nakauchi-san was good at Karin-chan's slightly more realistic acting. Of course, both of them can draw both, but somehow, each of them has their own strengths. The part about Anzu-chan's upbringing is short, but Ishidate-san said, 'It's short, so I'll draw it myself,' so I left it to him.

G:
When I saw the photos of cats that Ishidate had uploaded, I thought, 'I see, it makes sense that he's good at drawing cats,' but it turns out I was thinking about it in the wrong order.

Kuno:
I'm sure you love cats (laughs).

G:
Finally, with the release of 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' finally upon us, I would like to ask the two directors for one final push to get people to go to the cinema.

Yamashita:
It was also accepted at film festivals such as the Director's Fortnight at the Cannes Film Festival and the Annecy International Animated Film Festival, and people found it entertaining. Both Kuno and I were feeling our way around, and everyone, including the cast, was trying something new, so it was like we were able to go back to basics. I think that challenge is what made it so appealing. At first glance, it may look like a regular anime film, but I think you'll get the impression that it's something a little different when you watch it. I think it's a rare work that combines the power of live-action and the power of animation, so I hope you'll enjoy it at the cinema.

Kuno:
This was my first time directing a feature-length anime film, but it was a really unusual piece, and as the animation was completed bit by bit, I watched it and checked it over and over again, and the staff realized in real time, 'This is the kind of film it's going to be, this is how it's made,' and there was a fresh feeling of excitement every time it was completed. I think it's the kind of film that can't be named yet, so I'd love for people to see it in the cinema before it has a name, and share this wonder with me.

G:
It's definitely a film that I hope people will see at the cinema soon. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us today.

Yamashita and Kuno:
thank you very much.

The movie 'Bakeneko Anzu-chan' has been receiving rave reviews since Friday, July 19, 2024.



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